Toronto the Good

[RM]

For whatever reason, "On the High Seas" started playing in my head today. I paused on the lyrics :

"Was it somewhere in Michigan,
Or the Lake of the Woods ?
Up in old Montreal,
Or Toronto the Good ?"

I wondered if this was just a convenient rhyming scheme, or if "Toronto the Good" had any basis in reality. An infonet search provided the news that it is one of the numerous nicknames for Toronto. From Wikipedia:

Toronto the Good – from its history as a bastion of 19th century Victorian morality (sometimes called Toronto the Bad now in reverse as a derogatory nickname)

My question : Is this nickname commonly used ?

[charlene]

it has been used for years..as far back as I can recall..
sometimes in the recent past I wonder why tho..things sure aren't like they were...

[Peter Bro10]

Great! the pressure is off!!! I've learned my one new thing for the day.
Thanks!

[Auburn Annie]

Here's one explanation:

Toronto, Ontario
Toronto is the business center of Canada. Financial services, high technology, and insurance companies top the list of businesses represented there. Toronto is home to more top-ranked international companies than any other Canadian city. It is true to its name, which is a Huron Indian word for "place of meeting." Bay Street is Toronto's Wall Street, and it is as controversial outside the city as Wall Street is outside New York.

It is the most ethnically diverse city in the Western Hemisphere, according to the United Nations. The city sparkles with life -- indeed, some maintain that it has become as sophisticated as Montreal. Its center remains vibrant and still retains good residential neighborhoods.

For most of its history it was considered by some to be a poor cousin to Montreal. Toronto became Canada's most populous city in 1977 and in the process seems to have gained in confidence. Having changed dramatically in the past generation, Toronto used to be referred to as "Hog Town." It was notorious for indifferent service in restaurants and stringent blue laws, and remaining shuttered on Sundays. This staid, if safe, atmosphere also earned Toronto the nickname "Toronto the good." Without sacrificing its safety and comfort, Toronto has evolved into a vital, interesting place. Credit for the metamorphosis must be given to the waves of immigrants who poured into the city from all over the world after World War II, bringing their customs with them.

http://globalgateway.monster.ca/articles/cities.asp

[T.G.]

Toronto the Good? These days, you'd better wear a bulletproof vest if you're going to go walking anywhere around that town ...

[BILLW]

Interesting disparity between the chamber of commerce's view and the opinion of the "locals". I live near a resort town and if you only listened to the officials they would have you believe it never rained in the summer, LOL.

Bill

[charlene]

Toronto is up to 73 murders so far this year. Some were domestic incidents, some were gang related, others were robberies etc.. For Toronto this is an appalling statistic.

Our highest tally was a few years ago at 88 I believe.

The population in the city of Toronto is approx 2.7 million. This does not include the outlying suburbs called the GTA (great toronto area) which ups the population to 5 million.

Toronto has the most culturally diverse population of any city in the world.

I spend weekends in Toronto and I walk around that town all the time as do several million people - no bulletproof vests have been seen..other than on the police officers.

In 2006 Chicago had 452 murders - pop.-2.75 million.
539 murders in 2005 in New York City - pop-8 million.
Houston - 377 murders - pop.-2.1. million.
Boston with half a million had 75 murders.
Buffalo New York with only 280 thousand people had 74 murders in 2006.
San Diego with 1.2 million had 68.
Nashville - only 1/2 million people had 80 murders.

Things sure have changed in Toronto but as it was back in the 70's there are still areas to avoid as in all big cities.
Compared to other major cities it's a safe town..
but it has changed..lots for the good, some stuff not so much..
Just my opinion..I could be wrong..

[Jesse Joe]

I agree Char, all kinds of people in Big City's. Can you imagine the Jays or the Leafs playing w/ bulletproof vest.

[Yuri]

Yes, Toronto is still a safe city in comparison to others of similar or larger size but the direction it is heading in still saddens me. I recall from my youth that I only needed the fingers on both hands to count the yearly tally of murders in Toronto. The difference then was that the murders were the result of robberies gone awry or personal crimes of passion. These days more and more innocent bystanders are being caught in the midst of indiscriminate gang warfare.

What scares me more than gun toting idiots are intellectually challenged politicians. With the recent spate of senseless murders in Toronto, citizens were crying out for action. Leave it to Toronto’s socialist mayor to jump into action with a call to ban handguns. For all intents and purposes, private handguns in Canada were already banned in the 1930s. I doubt that any further declaration of a ban would have thugs and gang members running to the local police precinct to turn in their illegally smuggled weapons.

Years ago, before Jack Layton became the leader of Canada's federal socialist party (NDP), he sat as a Toronto City councillor. On hearing that the American nuclear capable warship USS Oliver Hazard Perry intended to dock on the Toronto waterfront, he declared Toronto a “Nuclear Free Zone” in spite of the ship not carrying any nuclear weapons on that voyage. Perhaps banning handguns and making Toronto a “Gun Free Zone” will be just as effective. To my knowledge, there haven’t been any nuclear detonations in Toronto since councillor Layton's declaration.

All things considered, I agree with Charlene and feel that Toronto is a reasonably safe city. Like any large city, you can find trouble if you look for it. Only rarely does it find you. I still like to think of it as “Toronto The Good”…

Yuri

[Jesse Joe]

All things considered, I agree with Charlene and feel that Toronto is a reasonably safe city. Like any large city, you can find trouble if you look for it. Only rarely does it find you. I still like to think of it as “Toronto The Good”…

Yuri

And what a beautiful city it is. On my calendar that I have here in this computer room, when I turned the page last thursday morning, it was Toronto's Skyline... {Gorgeous}

This pic Charlene must be a new one. Im going to scan it and put it here.

[Jesse Joe]

Toronto ! from my November Page Calendar...

[BILLW]

Nice pic - yeah Char I agree with you. You need to know where not to go in any city. I spend way too much time in Baltimore and it is the murder capital of the western world per capita. But I've never been shot there. I do know where not to turn, etc. but I would never advise anyone to not visit.

Bill

Originally Posted by Jesse Joe

Toronto ! from my November Page Calendar...

Stunning city!! WOW!! They do need to turn down the lights a tad though huh? During the last few years my son and I have discussed a visit there (to see a Jays vs. Sox game, of course). But we do want to see and experience as much as the city as possible...sans the bad, but we know we might not see a totally 'Toronto the Good'. But we'll take what good the city has to offer and no doubt that's plentiful.

Sounds like a relatively safe city if one just looks at the # of annual murders to gauge 'safety'. What about the crime rate in general? Traffic accidents and fatalities? Quality of life issues, etc?

Another important question to ask is "why" the murder rate as increased? Has there been an increase in population (and in crime-ridden areas, etc)? A decrease in police patrols and prevention programs? An influx of illegal drugs/drug-related activity? Yuri has mentioned guns -are there attempts to get the guns off the streets? Probably if we were to compare population to murder rate...perhaps Toronto's is lower now than in the 70's?

As Charlene has pointed out - many American cities have a larger # of murders than Toronto. So why does a 'not so good Toronto' school of thought exist? Newspapers, politicking etc., can 'scare' people and really, when you think of it - even one murder is a horrendous thing. So there you go - murder anywhere and in any # is NOT a good thing.

The town where I live now...there have been no murders here. Now that's good!

Pam

[Yuri]

Much of Toronto's violence, as in other cities, is due to the drug culture and gang mentality. As I stated before, murders in the past were largely due to desperate people involved in botched robberies, or perhaps crimes of passion. As bad as that was, violence was targeted and compartmentalized. Now news sources often report of all out "shoot 'em ups' on busy mid-day streets. Innocent bystanders being hit. Frivolous executions for having "dissed" someone.

We pride ourselves on our relatively open border policy with the U.S. but with that openness comes an influx of handguns, legal in the States but not in Canada. I would never blame the U.S., the guns themselves, nor the border policing policy. The heart of the problem lies with the idiotic mentality by some that a gun equals respect and power. If the demand is there, the guns will follow. Somehow we as a society have become less tolerant, less polite while more hurried and desperate. Some feel the solution to that rage lies at the end of a gun barrel. I feel the solution is a change of attitude.
Yuri

[charlene]

For those of us who remember back 30+ years it is hard to see some of the 'new' things that becoming such a culturally diverse city brings to the table. There's no one trying to scare people - crime is down but it is news that is reported..we can't ignore it or pretend it doesn't happen.
I ride the subways and buses and travel around the city by foot during the day and night and while I keep my head up and eyes open I am generally confident that I am safe.
Gangs that have infiltrated parts of the city with guns/drugs etc. are realtively new and do cause concern. The cases of domestic murders are something that is rampant everywhere. The odd case of an innocent bystander being killed is disturbing for sure. The murder rate has dropped in the last 2-3 years. Guns come across the border quite easily and efforts are being made to clamp down even more to stop them. There are many places across the 49th parallel that are very easy to cross and even at major crossings guns can get across as do drugs. Criminals are very smart. Drug labs are being busted continuously in private homes and it is found that many of the folks at the homes are illegally in the country or are involved in gang life. As the population is so culturally diverse so are the gangs...we have gangs from all over the world here! lol

The pic has been 'enlightened' - the city never looks like that..good grief they'd be able to see it from the shuttle if it was that bright. Many towers turn off the lights when the migratory birds are in the area and for cost cutting measures at other times.

In a survey compiled at :
http://www.mercer.com/referenceconte...ontent=1128060

Toronto is 15th with 5 Canadian cities in the top 25..the first u.s. city comes in at #27.

Criteria for the list are judged by:

Political and social environment (political stability, crime, law enforcement, etc)


Economic environment (currency exchange regulations, banking services, etc)


Socio-cultural environment (censorship, limitations on personal freedom, etc)


Health and sanitation (medical supplies and services, infectious diseases, sewage, waste disposal, air pollution, etc)


Schools and education (standard and availability of international schools, etc)


Public services and transportation (electricity, water, public transport, traffic congestion, etc)


Recreation (restaurants, theatres, cinemas, sports and leisure, etc)


Consumer goods (availability of food/daily consumption items, cars, etc)


Housing (housing, household appliances, furniture, maintenance services, etc)


Natural environment (climate, record of natural disasters)

[RM]

Well, then, I guess I'll scratch "See Lightfoot at Massey Hall" off my "Things to do before I die" list.

Just kidding.

[jj]

heh, good one RM

after going to school and then working for decades in the heart of the city, I've been able to witness many changes however now that I'm insanely commuting from the outskirts, I figure the chances of falling victim to a criminal act are just as hi (or lo, the way I see it) out here

like Char says, you just learn become street smarter when choosing routes and your timing

but I'm a bit unsettled when I think of the changing times ahead for my 3 year old sprout

anyhow, each day I prepare for the worst...

today I'm packing my power tools in the car front seat just in case I need to self defend

http://www.thestar.com/article/273944

[charlene]

Originally Posted by jj;

but I'm a bit unsettled when I think of the changing times ahead for my 3 year old sprout

anyhow, each day I prepare for the worst...

today I'm packing my power tools in the car front seat just in case I need to self defend ;)

[URL

http://www.thestar.com/article/273944[/URL]

I too thought that back 20 years ago James..as did my parents back in the 50's when they moved to big bad Toronto from North Ontario..

If Harrison is at a daycare anything like the one I work at then trust me - he'll do just fine out in the world..it's everyman for himself at those places! Toughen 'em up from the git-go!

Keep heading east with those tools - I can keep ya busy for days...

[jj]

Originally Posted by charlene

it's everyman for himself at those places! Toughen 'em up from the git-go!

Keep heading east with those tools - I can keep ya busy for days...

that's good to know, char but from what i see in the JK room, it's every girl for herself!
meanwhile Harry and pals quietly and nervously play with their barbies, heh

the tools are just for protection against cyclists and outraged squeegies dudes
i'm no man in toolbelt, am still trying to tell a robertsons from a philips or a charles

Jim The Non-Builder

[charlene]

Yep - this week we had the work bench/tool stuff out and the kitchen/dressup area too.. the girls were right into the tool stuff and hard hats and the boys looked lovely in their aprons serving up lunch..
lol
I explained the workings of all utensils and tools to each interested party...should be a fun time at home with them this weekend..
lolol

c'mon out to Whitby - I'll teach ya all about it!

Lisa and I are heading into Toronto the Good..we're going to see the lovely Canadian country artist Pal Brandt http://www.paulbrandt.com/ at the Danforth Music Hall. HE is for Lisa what Gord was to me as a young'un..when she met him at the Delta Chelsea coffee shoppe one morning at Massey 2005 she was gobsmacked as many observed and promptly broke down in tears after her photo and autograph..gee I wonder where she gets it? His website has some footage from the last few nights of his tour..
He's a lovely kid and I am looking forward to seeing him..altho catching a Leafs/Rangers game at the ACC would have been great too.. right Brian?
Next time ok? ..

Originally Posted by jj

that's good to know, char but from what i see in the JK room, it's every girl for herself!
meanwhile Harry and pals quietly and nervously play with their barbies, heh

the tools are just for protection against cyclists and outraged squeegies dudes
i'm no man in toolbelt, am still trying to tell a robertsons from a philips or a charles

Jim The Non-Builder

egad please keep those tools covered up! Wouldn't want someone to try to break into your car to steal them!!

[jj]

Originally Posted by podunklander

egad please keep those tools covered up! Wouldn't want someone to try to break into your car to steal them!!

true, podiddy, and certainly the only things worth swiping from my vehicle (or home)

ok, GL bootlegs, aside....