Voice Issue: Your Final Answer?

mtheeb · 08-03-2002, 06:27 PM

Because the issue of Lightfoot's "change of voice" has been raised again recently, I'm motivated to ask if anybody has the definitive, accurate answer: Why did his voice change between Shadows and Salute? I recall one somewhat creepy post in which someone suggested he knows the "dark secret" but can never tell. (Sincere apologies if I'm intruding on Lightfoot's privacy, but obviously something changed, at a particular point in time; fans notice it and continue to ponder it. So perhaps it's fair to inquire.)

------------------
And I will always love
that sound until the day
I die.

Restless · 08-03-2002, 06:27 PM

Because the issue of Lightfoot's "change of voice" has been raised again recently, I'm motivated to ask if anybody has the definitive, accurate answer: Why did his voice change between Shadows and Salute? I recall one somewhat creepy post in which someone suggested he knows the "dark secret" but can never tell. (Sincere apologies if I'm intruding on Lightfoot's privacy, but obviously something changed, at a particular point in time; fans notice it and continue to ponder it. So perhaps it's fair to inquire.)

------------------
And I will always love
that sound until the day
I die.

joveski · 08-04-2002, 01:59 AM

i actually think his Salute voice is the best of all.
it must be an intentional change. one thing people need to realise that he was/is (?) a lifelong smoker and the voice couldn't change that radically between shadows/salute due to cigs - both albums came out very close together. i also like the 70-72 voice a lot (esp. on SSOL). I'm not too big on the EOM voice for some reason. he tries to do too much with it on some songs

mende

08-04-2002, 05:09 AM

Well I guess it is sort of like Elton John too eh? His voice was an alto in the early 70's then he had throat surgery in the 80's and his singing voice dropped a few octaves to match Gord's voice from the 70's.

I even think Gord's speaking voice has changed a bit, even when comparing the spoken piece on In My Fashion from the 80's to how he does it today.

Oh well just glad he is still here

08-04-2002, 05:09 AM

Well I guess it is sort of like Elton John too eh? His voice was an alto in the early 70's then he had throat surgery in the 80's and his singing voice dropped a few octaves to match Gord's voice from the 70's.

I even think Gord's speaking voice has changed a bit, even when comparing the spoken piece on In My Fashion from the 80's to how he does it today.

Oh well just glad he is still here

Brian 57 · 08-04-2002, 06:57 AM

I was wondering if maybe the sudden voice change for Salute wasn't really a physiological change but an electronic one. That is, did they drop out the bottom of his voice to help it punch through the arrangements of background instruments? It's tough for a baritone to sing a lead vocal because there are so many instruments of similar range and timbre that the voice can get lost, and the more instruments involved in the arrangement, the muddier the vocal gets. Just a theory, since I don't know what his concert voice was doing at the same time.

boomergirl · 08-04-2002, 08:45 AM

I'd heard somewhere that Gordon had throat surgery; not surprising with being a smoker, etc....sometimes the doctors nick the vocal chords and that's all she wrote...

seahawk · 08-04-2002, 08:45 AM

I'd heard somewhere that Gordon had throat surgery; not surprising with being a smoker, etc....sometimes the doctors nick the vocal chords and that's all she wrote...

Bill Allen · 08-04-2002, 11:54 AM

quote:Originally posted by Brian 57:
I was wondering if maybe the sudden voice change for Salute wasn't really a physiological change but an electronic one. That is, did they drop out the bottom of his voice to help it punch through the arrangements of background instruments?

Excellent point...that certainly makes sense. East of Midnight has a similar vocal sound to it as well, and of course, that album is very electronic. It also occurs to me that during what is considered his "classic" vocal period--the 70s--the albums were being produced by Lenny Waronker, who could have had a lot to do with the vocal sound. Per GL's quote in Canadian Composer in '75 (which I've shamelessly lifted from the Gabiou biography): "Although my voice has a good lyrical quality to it, it's a little thin and I need all the fatness I can get."

As I think about this, I realize that I tend to think of the "change in voice" from the voice of the 70s to the voice of the 90s (and beyond). But if I listen to his body of work, his voice in the 70s was far different than the voice from the 60s, and from the 70s to the 80s and so on. As you say, Brian, recording technology probably has a lot to do with it. And let's not forget, Gordon Lightfoot WORKS. While most recording artists tour every three years or so to support a new album, GL is out there every year whether he's got new product or not...and this has been going on for around 40 years. I think that has a lot to do with it too. For me, I think that whatever his voice may have lost over the years in depth and timbre, it has gained in expressiveness. To take an example, I love hearing him do "Sit Down Young Stranger" in concert these days...there are layers to the song that I never caught before, and I think a lot of that is due to the way he sings it now.
Derek

telekidd · 08-04-2002, 11:54 AM

quote:Originally posted by Brian 57:
I was wondering if maybe the sudden voice change for Salute wasn't really a physiological change but an electronic one. That is, did they drop out the bottom of his voice to help it punch through the arrangements of background instruments?

Excellent point...that certainly makes sense. East of Midnight has a similar vocal sound to it as well, and of course, that album is very electronic. It also occurs to me that during what is considered his "classic" vocal period--the 70s--the albums were being produced by Lenny Waronker, who could have had a lot to do with the vocal sound. Per GL's quote in Canadian Composer in '75 (which I've shamelessly lifted from the Gabiou biography): "Although my voice has a good lyrical quality to it, it's a little thin and I need all the fatness I can get."

As I think about this, I realize that I tend to think of the "change in voice" from the voice of the 70s to the voice of the 90s (and beyond). But if I listen to his body of work, his voice in the 70s was far different than the voice from the 60s, and from the 70s to the 80s and so on. As you say, Brian, recording technology probably has a lot to do with it. And let's not forget, Gordon Lightfoot WORKS. While most recording artists tour every three years or so to support a new album, GL is out there every year whether he's got new product or not...and this has been going on for around 40 years. I think that has a lot to do with it too. For me, I think that whatever his voice may have lost over the years in depth and timbre, it has gained in expressiveness. To take an example, I love hearing him do "Sit Down Young Stranger" in concert these days...there are layers to the song that I never caught before, and I think a lot of that is due to the way he sings it now.
Derek

BILLW · 08-04-2002, 08:45 PM

How about this for a possibility....Gord's lifestyle back in the 70's and early 80's
artifically made his voice deeper, huskier,
in essence, he was abusing it. After he cut down smoking (I dont think he ever stopped),
and downing all that whiskey, and he generally got healthier and became something of a workout addict, his voice kind of went back to where it would have been all along, if it hadn't been abused. Yes, I can hear some straining and faltering in parts of Painter...but he gets thru "Much to My Suprise" unscathed, and "On Younge Street" sounds effortless, so he still has it in him..but of course, in the recording studio, if he's having a bad voice day..he'll just wait for another day. It doesn't matter to me, I have always enjoyed his diction, the way he attacks words...on words that end in an "s" he leaves a certain gap between the rest of the word and the "s", you all know what I mean. That is what is unique to him, moreso than what tones and overtones his vocal chords can provide. Frank Sinatra, it is said was in his vocal prime in his 50's, kept going thru his 60's, and then things fell apart between 68 and 70 or so...he really abused his body when he was younger.
Gord will change his singing, writing, and performing to suit his aging body...but he'll be around...I just hope he gets a Kennedy Center Honor before the good Lord calls him home! That would be very cool. They
just announced that Paul McCartney will get one to be televised in Dec....you dont have to be an American to receive one.

Rob1956 · 08-04-2002, 08:45 PM

How about this for a possibility....Gord's lifestyle back in the 70's and early 80's
artifically made his voice deeper, huskier,
in essence, he was abusing it. After he cut down smoking (I dont think he ever stopped),
and downing all that whiskey, and he generally got healthier and became something of a workout addict, his voice kind of went back to where it would have been all along, if it hadn't been abused. Yes, I can hear some straining and faltering in parts of Painter...but he gets thru "Much to My Suprise" unscathed, and "On Younge Street" sounds effortless, so he still has it in him..but of course, in the recording studio, if he's having a bad voice day..he'll just wait for another day. It doesn't matter to me, I have always enjoyed his diction, the way he attacks words...on words that end in an "s" he leaves a certain gap between the rest of the word and the "s", you all know what I mean. That is what is unique to him, moreso than what tones and overtones his vocal chords can provide. Frank Sinatra, it is said was in his vocal prime in his 50's, kept going thru his 60's, and then things fell apart between 68 and 70 or so...he really abused his body when he was younger.
Gord will change his singing, writing, and performing to suit his aging body...but he'll be around...I just hope he gets a Kennedy Center Honor before the good Lord calls him home! That would be very cool. They
just announced that Paul McCartney will get one to be televised in Dec....you dont have to be an American to receive one.

boomergirl · 08-06-2002, 09:31 AM

Here's another fellow who had a radical change in his voice over the years...Tom Waits! Compare his voice from 1973/1974 to now...it went from a really decent blues/jazz growl to basically just a dog bark that you can't even understand (no offense to Tom or his fans, me included, is intended).

seahawk · 08-06-2002, 09:31 AM

Here's another fellow who had a radical change in his voice over the years...Tom Waits! Compare his voice from 1973/1974 to now...it went from a really decent blues/jazz growl to basically just a dog bark that you can't even understand (no offense to Tom or his fans, me included, is intended).

Brian 57 · 08-06-2002, 05:43 PM

If you want to learn about the mechanics of the human singing voice, check out http://www.cursa-ur.com/aframe.htm for a thorough (lengthy) lesson on the human larynx, and why we are "born to sing". I don't know if this will shed any light on the question at hand, but it is fascinating.

Rebecca · 08-06-2002, 08:19 PM

James Taylor's voice has changed very little since the 70's. Why?

james hill · 08-12-2002, 12:47 PM

i hear very little, if any, difference in gord's voice on the SHADOWS & SALUTE albums. the production, on the other hand is quite noticeable. SHADOWS has a very warm, dark, moody feel to it, while SALUTE is indeed a radio friendly sounding record; perhaps too friendly. the musical arrangements have a "bright" sound to them, a little too slick, especially on the more uptempo trax like "Broken Dreams", (a tremendous song, by the way), "Salute...", "Someone to Believe In", (should've been a single).
i don't notice the change in gord's voice until the next album EOM. mixed results on that one.
in closing, gord himself thinks he didn't start to sing well 'til 1990!

james hill

joveski · 08-12-2002, 06:20 PM

another change in his voice that people haven't mentioned is the change between did she mention my name and back here on earth. BHOE signals the start of the 70s voice, in my opinion and there is a noticeable change between these 2 albums like shadows and salute.

mende

Bill Allen · 08-13-2002, 10:38 AM

That's a really interesting point, mende. The funny thing is I've felt much the same way...except that I put the change one album after you did! I always had it in my head that the change occurred between BHOE and IYRCMM (nee SDYS). However, I think that (apart from the obvious point that BHOE is '68 and IYCRMM is '70!), I've been psychologically influenced by the transition from UA to Warner/Reprise, as if there HAD to be a difference. I hadn't thought of the transition between DSMN and BHOW; I guess because the two albums were so different in style anyway. You've definitely inspired me to go back and do some intense listening...which is a good thing, and for which I say thanks!

Derek

quote:Originally posted by joveski:
another change in his voice that people haven't mentioned is the change between did she mention my name and back here on earth. BHOE signals the start of the 70s voice, in my opinion and there is a noticeable change between these 2 albums like shadows and salute.

mende

telekidd · 08-13-2002, 10:38 AM

That's a really interesting point, mende. The funny thing is I've felt much the same way...except that I put the change one album after you did! I always had it in my head that the change occurred between BHOE and IYRCMM (nee SDYS). However, I think that (apart from the obvious point that BHOE is '68 and IYCRMM is '70!), I've been psychologically influenced by the transition from UA to Warner/Reprise, as if there HAD to be a difference. I hadn't thought of the transition between DSMN and BHOW; I guess because the two albums were so different in style anyway. You've definitely inspired me to go back and do some intense listening...which is a good thing, and for which I say thanks!

Derek

quote:Originally posted by joveski:
another change in his voice that people haven't mentioned is the change between did she mention my name and back here on earth. BHOE signals the start of the 70s voice, in my opinion and there is a noticeable change between these 2 albums like shadows and salute.

mende

james hill · 08-13-2002, 11:03 AM

like it or not, there is definitely a marked difference between the U.A. years & the Warner/Reprise yrs. the difference is the production, not the material. that's why gord chose to re-record a handful of U.A. trax for "Gord's Gold". i would love to hear gord revisit that pre-warners material! i won't list any particular songs, just take your pick. "Something Very Special" is just one example of that rich vein of material from the old days that i would like to hear.

james hill

joveski · 08-13-2002, 05:37 PM

it's easy to conclude that the change from UA to warner plays a part, but there is a big bifference in his voice on BHOE. actually, to me BHOE and COTS sound very simialr voicewise and the rerecorded parts on GG1 are very simialr to BHOE. amazing with the 7 year time gap between them!

mende


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