Quadraphonic Lightfoot Albums

JeffreyS821 · 08-09-2006, 07:12 PM

A few years back I sold two Lightfoot LP's in quad: "Sundown" and "Cold On The Shoulder". Were there any other albums available in this format? Were they available on 8-track tape in quad? I ask this because I still have a quad 8-track player that works!

:D

gretschviking1967 · 08-09-2006, 07:12 PM

A few years back I sold two Lightfoot LP's in quad: "Sundown" and "Cold On The Shoulder". Were there any other albums available in this format? Were they available on 8-track tape in quad? I ask this because I still have a quad 8-track player that works!

:D

vlmagee · 08-09-2006, 07:46 PM

Those were the only two LPs in quad. And yes, there are 8 track quad tapes; I think the same two albums. When I get energetic I will look because I think I have my box of GL tapes somewhere I can get at it. And no, I don't have an 8 track player, quad or otherwise. FYI, the quad 8 tracks are actively sought after by quad tape collectors, not just GL fans, so they don't come cheap. I don't remember what I paid; probably in the $35 to $50 range. And I don't know if I want to even consider parting with them ... but ... maybe ...

geodeticman · 08-10-2006, 05:17 AM

Gretsch,
Sorry I can't help on the quadraphonic tapes or LP's, and I'd love to hear both in quad myself.

Have you heard the "audiophile" stereo LP's of Gord's ? In case you still have your quad turntable, I wonder if a stereo needle is available or necessary; I'd assume so.

reason being is I heard my audiophile copy of Sundown on a $30k stereo an old boss of mine has (he is an audiophile....) and by listening to his proclaimed prime example of the difference was Seven Island Suite. First He plyed a Mint condition vinyl LP of SIS on his system that can blow his house off its moorings.

Then, he played SIS off of the audiophile quality copy of Sundown. Roaring out of those 7 foot tall and two feet wide electrostatic speakers that looked like 2001 monoliths, SIS was an incredible listen.

There really is a difference on most audiophile versions, as he said. He said most die-hard audiophile vinyl collectors will buy artists they don't even necessarily like because so few were produced, the snatched any up when they saw them.

And he wasn't even a GL fan ! Despite this character flaw I was sure would lead to his ultimate failure in management ( it did ) he still had bought the GL LP.

I guess point being is if you can get your hands on this quality of LP of Gord's, it might ease the pangs of no quad tapes; collectability notwithstanding. Just wondered if you've heard this version, I think of Gord's music only Sundown was issued this way.

BTW - are the quad versions good enough to warrant ramping-up with used quad equipment if I find it cheap ? I've always wanted to hear it and never have (quadraphonic sound). Your opinion, based on sound enhancement ?

Good luck on your 8-track quest ! - geo Steve

Jesse Joe · 08-10-2006, 07:45 AM

gretschviking1967, You being a musician must owned a Gretsch guitar?

Call me not up to date, but I dont think I know what you mean by "Quad"?

Where does it say on the tape or LP, that it is in Quad, and why are they so expensive? Im gone a go check my, "Sundown" and "Cold On The Shoulder" LP and 8 track tape. Val I still have my "Old Dan's Record", 8 track tape, that is supposed to be a collectors item, because of one song replacement. Anyone interested out there??

Jesse Joe · 08-10-2006, 07:45 AM

gretschviking1967, You being a musician must owned a Gretsch guitar?

Call me not up to date, but I dont think I know what you mean by "Quad"?

Where does it say on the tape or LP, that it is in Quad, and why are they so expensive? Im gone a go check my, "Sundown" and "Cold On The Shoulder" LP and 8 track tape. Val I still have my "Old Dan's Record", 8 track tape, that is supposed to be a collectors item, because of one song replacement. Anyone interested out there??

johnfowles · 08-10-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geodeticman:

Have you heard the "audiophile" stereo LP's of Gord's ? In case you still have your quad turntable, I wonder if a stereo needle is available or necessary; I'd assume so.

reason being is I heard my audiophile copy of Sundown on a $30k stereo an old boss of mine has (he is an audiophile....) and by listening to his proclaimed prime example of the difference was Seven Island Suite. First He plyed a Mint condition vinyl LP of SIS on his system that can blow his house off its moorings.

Then, he played SIS off of the audiophile quality copy of Sundown. Roaring out of those 7 foot tall and two feet wide electrostatic speakers that looked like 2001 monoliths, SIS was an incredible listen.

- geo Steve

there is a MFSL Sundown album on offer at ebay item number:-
140017224357

Presumably the S stands for "Stereo"
No it's part of an acronym Jim for
"Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab"

johnfowles · 08-10-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geodeticman:

Have you heard the "audiophile" stereo LP's of Gord's ? In case you still have your quad turntable, I wonder if a stereo needle is available or necessary; I'd assume so.

reason being is I heard my audiophile copy of Sundown on a $30k stereo an old boss of mine has (he is an audiophile....) and by listening to his proclaimed prime example of the difference was Seven Island Suite. First He plyed a Mint condition vinyl LP of SIS on his system that can blow his house off its moorings.

Then, he played SIS off of the audiophile quality copy of Sundown. Roaring out of those 7 foot tall and two feet wide electrostatic speakers that looked like 2001 monoliths, SIS was an incredible listen.

- geo Steve

there is a MFSL Sundown album on offer at ebay item number:-
140017224357

Presumably the S stands for "Stereo"
No it's part of an acronym Jim for
"Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab"

JeffreyS821 · 08-10-2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesse -Joe:
gretschviking1967, You being a musician must owned a Gretsch guitar?

Call me not up to date, but I dont think I know what you mean by "Quad"?

Where does it say on the tape or LP, that it is in Quad, and why are they so expensive? Im gone a go check my, "Sundown" and "Cold On The Shoulder" LP and 8 track tape. Val I still have my "Old Dan's Record", 8 track tape, that is supposed to be a collectors item, because of one song replacement. Anyone interested out there??

Yes. I own a 1962 Country Club and a 1967 Viking. The latter is my fave (obviously).

"Quad" means "quadraphonic" which is the 1970's version of surround sound. Lightfoot had two albums released in that format. I have seen them online, shops and conventions and they aren't too expensive. I think I paid 5 bucks for both quad LP's. I want to get the 8 track tapes and shall. I just need to go on one of my anthropological expeditions! It is possible to clean up the sound and have all four quad channels transfered to a CD-R and voila! There is the quad mix in all it's 1970's glory!

gretschviking1967 · 08-10-2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesse -Joe:
gretschviking1967, You being a musician must owned a Gretsch guitar?

Call me not up to date, but I dont think I know what you mean by "Quad"?

Where does it say on the tape or LP, that it is in Quad, and why are they so expensive? Im gone a go check my, "Sundown" and "Cold On The Shoulder" LP and 8 track tape. Val I still have my "Old Dan's Record", 8 track tape, that is supposed to be a collectors item, because of one song replacement. Anyone interested out there??

Yes. I own a 1962 Country Club and a 1967 Viking. The latter is my fave (obviously).

"Quad" means "quadraphonic" which is the 1970's version of surround sound. Lightfoot had two albums released in that format. I have seen them online, shops and conventions and they aren't too expensive. I think I paid 5 bucks for both quad LP's. I want to get the 8 track tapes and shall. I just need to go on one of my anthropological expeditions! It is possible to clean up the sound and have all four quad channels transfered to a CD-R and voila! There is the quad mix in all it's 1970's glory!

JeffreyS821 · 08-10-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geodeticman:
Gretsch,
Sorry I can't help on the quadraphonic tapes or LP's, and I'd love to hear both in quad myself.

Have you heard the "audiophile" stereo LP's of Gord's ? In case you still have your quad turntable, I wonder if a stereo needle is available or necessary; I'd assume so.

reason being is I heard my audiophile copy of Sundown on a $30k stereo an old boss of mine has (he is an audiophile....) and by listening to his proclaimed prime example of the difference was Seven Island Suite. First He plyed a Mint condition vinyl LP of SIS on his system that can blow his house off its moorings.

Then, he played SIS off of the audiophile quality copy of Sundown. Roaring out of those 7 foot tall and two feet wide electrostatic speakers that looked like 2001 monoliths, SIS was an incredible listen.

There really is a difference on most audiophile versions, as he said. He said most die-hard audiophile vinyl collectors will buy artists they don't even necessarily like because so few were produced, the snatched any up when they saw them.

And he wasn't even a GL fan ! Despite this character flaw I was sure would lead to his ultimate failure in management ( it did ) he still had bought the GL LP.

I guess point being is if you can get your hands on this quality of LP of Gord's, it might ease the pangs of no quad tapes; collectability notwithstanding. Just wondered if you've heard this version, I think of Gord's music only Sundown was issued this way.

BTW - are the quad versions good enough to warrant ramping-up with used quad equipment if I find it cheap ? I've always wanted to hear it and never have (quadraphonic sound). Your opinion, based on sound enhancement ?

Good luck on your 8-track quest ! - geo Steve

I had the audiophile LP's but no quad turn table so all I could get were two channels. I have a quad 8 track player that works. I own many quad tapes. I love those things! The problem with quad LP's is they scratch very easily. I own many in that format and not one of them has stood the test of time well at all.

gretschviking1967 · 08-10-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geodeticman:
Gretsch,
Sorry I can't help on the quadraphonic tapes or LP's, and I'd love to hear both in quad myself.

Have you heard the "audiophile" stereo LP's of Gord's ? In case you still have your quad turntable, I wonder if a stereo needle is available or necessary; I'd assume so.

reason being is I heard my audiophile copy of Sundown on a $30k stereo an old boss of mine has (he is an audiophile....) and by listening to his proclaimed prime example of the difference was Seven Island Suite. First He plyed a Mint condition vinyl LP of SIS on his system that can blow his house off its moorings.

Then, he played SIS off of the audiophile quality copy of Sundown. Roaring out of those 7 foot tall and two feet wide electrostatic speakers that looked like 2001 monoliths, SIS was an incredible listen.

There really is a difference on most audiophile versions, as he said. He said most die-hard audiophile vinyl collectors will buy artists they don't even necessarily like because so few were produced, the snatched any up when they saw them.

And he wasn't even a GL fan ! Despite this character flaw I was sure would lead to his ultimate failure in management ( it did ) he still had bought the GL LP.

I guess point being is if you can get your hands on this quality of LP of Gord's, it might ease the pangs of no quad tapes; collectability notwithstanding. Just wondered if you've heard this version, I think of Gord's music only Sundown was issued this way.

BTW - are the quad versions good enough to warrant ramping-up with used quad equipment if I find it cheap ? I've always wanted to hear it and never have (quadraphonic sound). Your opinion, based on sound enhancement ?

Good luck on your 8-track quest ! - geo Steve

I had the audiophile LP's but no quad turn table so all I could get were two channels. I have a quad 8 track player that works. I own many quad tapes. I love those things! The problem with quad LP's is they scratch very easily. I own many in that format and not one of them has stood the test of time well at all.

Borderstone · 08-10-2006, 09:57 PM

I just happen to own a Quadrophonic copy of "Sundown" and thanks to those nice young clerks at Zia Records who haven't the foggiest idea what Quadrophonic means....I got it for $1.99!! :D

Yeee-ssss!!!

have to ask,I haven't played it yet,will it play on a standard (modern) turntable or does it have to be heavier than that?

BILLW · 08-11-2006, 09:38 AM

I think I can clear up a couple of things. The album photo above of "Sundown" I also own. It's not quad. If it was it would say "Quad" or "Quadraphonic" or "SQ" or "QS" somewhere on the album front. Pictured above is a release from Mobile Fidelity SoundLabs, and is a half-speed mastered version of "Sundown". What that means is simple...when a record is mastered from the actual tapes from the recording studio...the tape is played into a lathe which cuts what is known as a "Mother" disc. The "mother" can't be used to stamp out discs because it would wear down too quickly, so the mother is used to stamp out a few "fathers" which then stamp out the disc that you own. Mobile Fidelity slowed down the tape playing into the lathe by half, and in turn slowed down the cutting lathe by half, therefore getting a cleaner, better defined groove...which led to an improvement in the final sound coming out of your stereo.
Quad records contained four channels of information in the grooves. The signal out of the turntable was fed into either a quad capable receiver or a seperate processor which sent the additional information (music) to the rear channels. There were two different ways to do this one was known as "QS" the other was "SQ". You didn't need a special turntable or stylus (needle) to hear quad, since the receiver or processor did the actual decoding. Mobile Fidelity also tended to use more vinyl in thier records making for a heaver, sturdier disc.
That was opposed to RCA's "Dynaflex" records...do any of you have any John Denver records where you can hold the disc between the palms of your hands and shake it, and it behaves like a piece of paper! Dynaflex records always had a lot of surface noise...the Mobile Fidelity discs were always very quiet...as long as you were careful handling them.

Rob1956 · 08-11-2006, 09:38 AM

I think I can clear up a couple of things. The album photo above of "Sundown" I also own. It's not quad. If it was it would say "Quad" or "Quadraphonic" or "SQ" or "QS" somewhere on the album front. Pictured above is a release from Mobile Fidelity SoundLabs, and is a half-speed mastered version of "Sundown". What that means is simple...when a record is mastered from the actual tapes from the recording studio...the tape is played into a lathe which cuts what is known as a "Mother" disc. The "mother" can't be used to stamp out discs because it would wear down too quickly, so the mother is used to stamp out a few "fathers" which then stamp out the disc that you own. Mobile Fidelity slowed down the tape playing into the lathe by half, and in turn slowed down the cutting lathe by half, therefore getting a cleaner, better defined groove...which led to an improvement in the final sound coming out of your stereo.
Quad records contained four channels of information in the grooves. The signal out of the turntable was fed into either a quad capable receiver or a seperate processor which sent the additional information (music) to the rear channels. There were two different ways to do this one was known as "QS" the other was "SQ". You didn't need a special turntable or stylus (needle) to hear quad, since the receiver or processor did the actual decoding. Mobile Fidelity also tended to use more vinyl in thier records making for a heaver, sturdier disc.
That was opposed to RCA's "Dynaflex" records...do any of you have any John Denver records where you can hold the disc between the palms of your hands and shake it, and it behaves like a piece of paper! Dynaflex records always had a lot of surface noise...the Mobile Fidelity discs were always very quiet...as long as you were careful handling them.

mercedes · 08-11-2006, 10:04 AM

Thanks Rob.

I was just about to throw in my tuppenceworth to this thread, but you are absolutely correct.

HSMs were / are radically different from "Qauds" both in their intial release price and quality, the latter of which was dependent upon equipment and setup.

Mike

Jesse Joe · 08-11-2006, 01:19 PM

Great explanation Rob1956. If I would have a Quad disc, and played it on an ordinary stereo. Would there be a problem?

I have a Gordon Lightfoot LP, that when you hold it against the light, you can almost see thru it. You can certainly see the other side. Is this what you meant with the John Denver LP's? or do I have something here, that is rare. The album is Gord's Gold Vol 2...

Jesse Joe · 08-11-2006, 01:19 PM

Great explanation Rob1956. If I would have a Quad disc, and played it on an ordinary stereo. Would there be a problem?

I have a Gordon Lightfoot LP, that when you hold it against the light, you can almost see thru it. You can certainly see the other side. Is this what you meant with the John Denver LP's? or do I have something here, that is rare. The album is Gord's Gold Vol 2...

RM · 08-11-2006, 03:17 PM

To all,

I find this a very interesting topic. But being dense, I have some inquiries :

What's the difference between "SQ" and "QS" ?

Would a "surround sound" system of today be able to decode the 4 channels, or are the special receivers mentioned unique in their capabilities ?

Pardon me if the answers to these questions were obvious in the posts.

It seems I have reached the age where one becomes oblivious to the obvious.

RMD

BILLW · 08-12-2006, 01:50 AM

Jesse-Jo,
There are a lot of records where the thickness of the vinyl is small enough to let some light thru. The thickness in and of itself really does not effect the sound quality, it's the quality of the plastic (vinyl) itself. Is it made with stablizers that help keep the grooves in their proper shape? Are there tiny air bubbles that formed into open pits when the vinyl cooled that lead to lots of ticks and pops. Thicker records, known as having a higher gram weight tend to be made with a slurry of much better quality plastics and additives. With most thinner records it is never proper to play a track more than once in a 24 hour period. Why? Did you know that the friction of a stylus passing thru a groove can be the equivalent of a couple hundred degrees for a few milliseconds...not long of course, but long enough to move the groove out of it's proper shape. Playing it again a few minutes keeps it from going back to it's proper shape. Now, if you read the cardboard inner sleeve of most Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab records, they actually encourage you to play the record often. The vinyl is strong enough and of enough quality to handle it...also any "burrs" left over from the stamping process are actually burnished off with repeated playings. I don't know if MFSL still is in business. But if you have a properly set up turntable and a decent quality stereo system, the finest engineered (both in the studio with the artist and by the guys at MFSL) is Cat Stevens' "Tea for the Tiller Man"...just a magnificent recording.
MFSL also got into the CD manufacturing game. I have Cat's "Teaser and the Firecat" on CD by them.. the side of the disc read by the laser is not the usual aluminum, but 24 karat gold. The theory is that the laser bouncing off the gold returns a higher quality bit-rate to the processor in the player...therefore giving a higher quality data stream. I can't say I hear a difference, because I didn't buy "Teaser" in vinyl,but it is an interesting thought.
RMD,
Back in the 70's I used to know all the differences between SQ and QS, but I just don't remember anymore. Basically, they were two different ways to do the same thing. Pretty similiar, but different enough to let the owners obtain separate patent numbers. Trying not to get too technical...the surround information was not the discreet (completely separate) rear signals you hear today with Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or DVD-Audio or SACD. The surrounds were
the difference or out of phase information contained in the left and right channels. It's known as left minus right or L-R. It's an ambient
sound, not separate signals, therefore more of a "parlor trick" than the real thing.
If you've purchaed a DVD player recently, it just may be able to play DVD-Audio or SACD. However you need 6 cables coming out of the player into the 6 inputs in a multi channel input receiver: left, center, right, left surround, right surround, subwoofer. The sound quality is far beyond what a CD is able to deliver, since DVD-Audio and SACD is DVD based, therefore can contain far more information than a CD. I recently picked up the first 5 of the Moody Blues albums and it just blows me away.
I was hoping Gord would release some of his stuff on either format, but, alas, in this world of mp3's, iPods, etc...fewer and fewer people care about sound quality. SACD and DVD-Audio is almost dead...it was never marketed correctly and people just didn't respond. However the new DVD formats: HD-DVD and Blu-ray are capable of delevering high resolution audio, so we'll see.
Back to your question, SQ an QS were just very simple out of phase circuits that accomplished the same thing. Back then Sansui was the big quad company...where are they now?

Rob1956 · 08-12-2006, 01:50 AM

Jesse-Jo,
There are a lot of records where the thickness of the vinyl is small enough to let some light thru. The thickness in and of itself really does not effect the sound quality, it's the quality of the plastic (vinyl) itself. Is it made with stablizers that help keep the grooves in their proper shape? Are there tiny air bubbles that formed into open pits when the vinyl cooled that lead to lots of ticks and pops. Thicker records, known as having a higher gram weight tend to be made with a slurry of much better quality plastics and additives. With most thinner records it is never proper to play a track more than once in a 24 hour period. Why? Did you know that the friction of a stylus passing thru a groove can be the equivalent of a couple hundred degrees for a few milliseconds...not long of course, but long enough to move the groove out of it's proper shape. Playing it again a few minutes keeps it from going back to it's proper shape. Now, if you read the cardboard inner sleeve of most Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab records, they actually encourage you to play the record often. The vinyl is strong enough and of enough quality to handle it...also any "burrs" left over from the stamping process are actually burnished off with repeated playings. I don't know if MFSL still is in business. But if you have a properly set up turntable and a decent quality stereo system, the finest engineered (both in the studio with the artist and by the guys at MFSL) is Cat Stevens' "Tea for the Tiller Man"...just a magnificent recording.
MFSL also got into the CD manufacturing game. I have Cat's "Teaser and the Firecat" on CD by them.. the side of the disc read by the laser is not the usual aluminum, but 24 karat gold. The theory is that the laser bouncing off the gold returns a higher quality bit-rate to the processor in the player...therefore giving a higher quality data stream. I can't say I hear a difference, because I didn't buy "Teaser" in vinyl,but it is an interesting thought.
RMD,
Back in the 70's I used to know all the differences between SQ and QS, but I just don't remember anymore. Basically, they were two different ways to do the same thing. Pretty similiar, but different enough to let the owners obtain separate patent numbers. Trying not to get too technical...the surround information was not the discreet (completely separate) rear signals you hear today with Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or DVD-Audio or SACD. The surrounds were
the difference or out of phase information contained in the left and right channels. It's known as left minus right or L-R. It's an ambient
sound, not separate signals, therefore more of a "parlor trick" than the real thing.
If you've purchaed a DVD player recently, it just may be able to play DVD-Audio or SACD. However you need 6 cables coming out of the player into the 6 inputs in a multi channel input receiver: left, center, right, left surround, right surround, subwoofer. The sound quality is far beyond what a CD is able to deliver, since DVD-Audio and SACD is DVD based, therefore can contain far more information than a CD. I recently picked up the first 5 of the Moody Blues albums and it just blows me away.
I was hoping Gord would release some of his stuff on either format, but, alas, in this world of mp3's, iPods, etc...fewer and fewer people care about sound quality. SACD and DVD-Audio is almost dead...it was never marketed correctly and people just didn't respond. However the new DVD formats: HD-DVD and Blu-ray are capable of delevering high resolution audio, so we'll see.
Back to your question, SQ an QS were just very simple out of phase circuits that accomplished the same thing. Back then Sansui was the big quad company...where are they now?

BILLW · 08-12-2006, 01:52 AM

Oh, I forgot, playing a quad album on a regular stereo would let you hear just the 2 channel information, the surrounds would just not be decoded. Kind of like hooking up a DVD player to a black and white tv. You could watch the movie, but it'd be in black and white.

Rob1956 · 08-12-2006, 01:52 AM

Oh, I forgot, playing a quad album on a regular stereo would let you hear just the 2 channel information, the surrounds would just not be decoded. Kind of like hooking up a DVD player to a black and white tv. You could watch the movie, but it'd be in black and white.

Jesse Joe · 08-12-2006, 02:12 AM

You have lots of knowledge, much impressed. I do have "Tea for The Tillerman", in 8 track, and in CD. I just wish that Cat would have never left the music buisness. What a great talent he was.

Thanks for the info Rob, greatly appreciated...Jesse.

[ August 12, 2006, 02:17: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]

Jesse Joe · 08-12-2006, 02:12 AM

You have lots of knowledge, much impressed. I do have "Tea for The Tillerman", in 8 track, and in CD. I just wish that Cat would have never left the music buisness. What a great talent he was.

Thanks for the info Rob, greatly appreciated...Jesse.

[ August 12, 2006, 02:17: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]


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