Gord lends support-SAM The Record Man sign

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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...hang_sign.html

Sam the Record Man's son dismayed Ryerson won’t hang sign
Sam Sniderman's son says the record store owner would have been "outraged" by Ryerson breaking its promise to hang his iconic neon sign.

When Sam The Record Man went out of business, the property was sold to Ryerson University with the understanding that the iconic spinning records would be placed on a new structure. The importance of that promise and whether other ways can be found to mark the site's importance is now the focus of a dispute between the late Sam Sniderman's family and the university.

ANDREW STAWICKI / CP
When Sam The Record Man went out of business, the property was sold to Ryerson University with the understanding that the iconic spinning records would be placed on a new structure. The importance of that promise and whether other ways can be found to mark the site's importance is now the focus of a dispute between the late Sam Sniderman's family and the university.

By: Laura Kane News reporter, Published on Thu Sep 05 2013
EXPLORE THIS STORY

Sam Sniderman’s son is dismayed Ryerson University is breaking its promise to reinstall the record store owner’s iconic neon sign — a move he says would have “outraged” his deceased father.

Meanwhile, Canadian musicians such as Gordon Lightfoot are also fighting to save the two-storey, 800-light spinning records, which illuminated Yonge St. from 1961 to 2008 and are seen as symbols of Toronto’s music history.

Bobby Sniderman, 64, said his father supported Ryerson’s purchase of the Sam the Record Man property because of the university’s promise to honour his legacy, which led to an agreement to hang the sign.

“If my father was alive today, there would be no possibility of this taking place. He would be outraged by it, and he would be leading the charge to get the recognition he deserves,” said Bobby.

But Ryerson president Sheldon Levy said Wednesday that he spoke with Sniderman many times before he died last September. The humble businessman never insisted the sign be preserved, he said.
“At no time did Mr. Sniderman, may he rest in peace, and I have any discussion about his desire to have that sign resurrected,” said Levy.

Ryerson bought the crumbling record store property from the Sniderman family in 2008. After the city threatened a heritage designation, the university agreed to restore and hang the sign — either on its new Student Learning Centre on Yonge St. or on Gould St.
But last week, the city unveiled a proposal that would let Ryerson off the hook for reinstalling the sign. Instead, the university would embed replica signs in the Yonge St. sidewalk and hang a plaque retelling the history of the beloved store.

Bobby is fuming that Ryerson did not contact his family before revealing the plan, which will be debated by Toronto and East York Community Council on Sept. 10 before going to city council Oct. 8.

Although he has only seen a small rendering, Bobby said the replica sidewalk signs would be no comparison to the real thing. “The signs are really larger-than-life and iconic ... It just wouldn’t have anywhere near the same relevance and importance.”
Levy said the university will seek the family’s input now that the city report has been published. Ryerson first wanted to see if the alternative plan was feasible before looping in the Snidermans, he said.

But as it did in 2007, public opposition appears to be heating up — with major Canadian music stars including Gordon Lightfoot, Danny Marks and Liona Boyd stepping forward to save the iconic sign.

“The giant neon spinning discs are a reminder of the huge role that Sam Sniderman and his store played in the cultural life of Toronto,” Lightfoot said in a statement. “I believe they should be preserved and remounted in the interests of our city’s heritage.”
Local councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam endorsed the new plan, but stressed it is just the first part of a larger vision to honour “the man, not the store.”

“We have to celebrate our history and we need to do it in a way that is appropriate,” she said. “There might be a whole generation — the millennials, the young folks — who may walk by some spinning discs and they don’t recognize the brand.”

City staff and Ryerson have also discussed renaming Gould St. as Sam Sniderman Way, or housing Sam the Record Man artifacts, including the sign, in a “museum of Toronto” or a “museum of music history,” she said.

Wong-Tam said Ryerson and the city have been searching for an alternative to reinstalling the neon sign since at least 2010. Their concerns include the possibility that toxic mercury could leak out in the event of fire or damage; that very few neon experts still exist to repair the sign; and that it would guzzle energy.

When she asked Sniderman about the sign in 2011, he didn’t have a “strong reaction” and seemed surprised by a social media campaign to preserve it, said Wong-Tam.
Kyle Rae, former councillor for the area, said that in hindsight, asking Ryerson to reinstall the sign was impractical. “When I think about it today, telling a new property owner that they have to put the sign up of a no-longer-existing business is a pretty bizarre thing to do.”

But Bobby insists his father was “unequivocal” in his wish to see the sign reinstalled, and is calling on Ryerson to uphold its end of the deal.
“Ryerson made a commitment to my father and our family,” he said. “We’re a family that is really big on honouring commitments.”

[charlene]

http://www.thegridto.com/city/politi...-fast-ryerson/

Wed Sep 4, 2013
Politics

Not so fast, Ryerson: We need to see that Sam’s sign

BY: Edward Keenan

I have a scar on my forehead from when I went over the handlebars of my bike half a lifetime ago. There’s a bump on the bridge of my nose from one of the times it was broken. A pale semi-circle on my left thumb marks where I nearly sliced it off while I was cooking for a living. On my shoulder, there’s a blued-out tattoo representing a way of looking at the world I only half-subscribe to these days. None of these things is essential to how I want to present myself to the world, and yet I cannot imagine wanting to erase them from my body. They’re tiny parts of who I am.

Maybe it’s just me, but I see beauty in such imperfect markers of experience—my own, and similar ones on other people. They’re the artifacts of lives in progress, quietly hinting at the story of who we were before we became the people we are today. They remind us of where we’ve been, what we’ve done, and what’s happened to us.

I’ve been thinking about this lately in relation to the debate coming to City Hall about the Sam the Record Man sign that once defined that section of the Yonge Street strip. Those giant, rotating neon discs were meant to be returned to their original location by Ryerson University, which now owns the property, as a memento of a chapter in local history—a beloved music store, but, more than that, a longstanding neighbourhood aesthetic. On Sept. 10, a city committee will consider the university’s request to be excused from the deal it made to restore the signs. Instead, Ryerson proposes an online tribute to Sam Sniderman’s record store and a sidewalk-level monument to the discs.

The staff report on the request reveals Ryerson’s mendacity throughout the entire process: The school agreed to keep the sign in order to circumvent a heritage designation that would have prevented the building’s destruction. Now, the school says it cannot restore the sign for a series of reasons that are either Ryerson’s own fault (it clashes with the design of the new building), entirely foreseeable (the cost of lighting the sign will be prohibitively expensive), or both. None of these concerns are things Ryerson didn’t know before it entered a binding contract with the city. On those grounds alone, city council should deny this attempt to weasel out of the deal lest it be gamed by every huckster facing a heritage designation in the future. (For more on this, read my recent blog post on how we should really deal with Ryerson’s back-pedalling.)

Still, do we actually want the sign back? Some people say it makes no sense to preserve the past with such token gestures—in this case, maintaining an advertisement for a business that no longer exists, which sold a technology that’s now antiquated. Maybe, these people say, such things should go in a museum, rather than on the street. I disagree.

Preserving our heritage in museums, or preserving it as museums, like Casa Loma or Fort York, misrepresents the way the city’s past and present intertwine. Museums are places to visit when we’re feeling nostalgic or curious to see a moment frozen in time, removed from the way we live now. But our recent past is not something separate from our present. Our history is still with us, still shaping us, part of how we got here. It’s still our story.

So the living, growing city should retain historic elements embedded in the evolving urban fabric. In many cases, a landmark can continue to serve its original purpose, as Union Station and the Royal York Hotel do. In other cases, a storied place can be adapted to serve a new purpose, like the grocery store and sports facility in Maple Leaf Gardens, or the galleries in the Distillery District, or the green lab at the Brick Works.

Failing that, we can embed footprints of civic history in the design of the city we’re becoming—the streetscape can be a text in which to read layers of Toronto’s past while living in the present. “Façadism,” as it’s called, can get a bad rap for offering only the illusion of heritage preservation. But to the extent that it makes the story of where we’ve been a part of the landscape of our present, even while we go about shaping our future, it’s valuable. It tells us a bit about who we were, and connects it to who we are. You can’t replace that with a plaque and website telling us about an old record store.

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http://www.citynews.ca/2013/09/05/ci...cord-man-sign/
A City of Toronto employee has launched an online petition to force Ryerson University to preserve the old Sam the Record Man sign, a sign that for decades was a beacon for music lovers on Yonge Street.

Ryerson bought the land at Yonge and Gould in 2008 and promised to hang the sign in its new student learning centre, but now the school says they can’t afford to refurbish it, and have also raised safety concerns.

Instead, Ryerson wants to put a plaque in the sidewalk where Sam’s used to be.

The matter goes to Toronto and East York Community Council next week.

The petition has several hundred signatures so far.

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pics:

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SOS - Save Our Sign (from Nicholas Jennings)

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Opera House GM Krista Storey is pictured here with John Blackstone and Ed Forgotson of CBS Sunday Morning New York who were in town Wednesday filming for an upcoming spotlight on local musical legend Gordon Lightfoot. John, originally from Orillia, was happy to be home reminiscing about his roots.
The date the show airs is not yet known but will be posted here once determined.

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Public meeting at Toronto City Hall on the fate of the sign. Tuesday Sept. 10, 2 pm, Committee Room 1, 2nd floor West Tower, members of the public are invited to speak. here's the link: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgen...m=2013.TE26.34

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PLEASE SIGN: https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitio...man-sign#share

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Fate of Sam the Record Man sign uncertain -...

Sam the Record Man store memorabilia auction -...

Toronto remembers "Sam The Record Man"...

17 years ago - Bob MacAdorey and Sam Sniderman @75

Bob McAdorey interviews Sam the Record Man -...

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http://flavorwire.com/405806/35-of-a...ge-neon-signs/

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1999 -

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http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09...ontos-history/

On principle, Ryerson University should bolt the iconic Sam the Record Man sign to the front of its new student centre: It committed to do so, and its case for welshing on that promise is obnoxiously, insultingly weak. The university’s “concerns,” enumerated in a city planning staff report, include that there is “no suitable location” to put the sign on a building that was designed and constructed in full knowledge of the commitment; and, my personal favourite, that there has been “a decrease in the number of qualified neon signage professionals.”

Ryerson wants to put a commemorative plaque on the sidewalk instead. “Get stuffed” is a perfectly reasonable response. That said, putting a famous record store’s sign on to the building that replaced it never made much sense to me.

Sam’s is gone, just like A&A Records next door. The Morrissey, Matador, Colonial, Silver Rail and Bassel’s taverns are gone, along with Carmen’s and the Canary restaurants. Countless movie theatres are gone, including all the ones I grew up in, and I’m not even 40. Simpson’s and Eaton’s are gone. The Funland arcade, Lakeshore Boulevard’s infamous motor hotels, Pearson’s original Terminal One — all these landmarks, salubrious or not, gone without a trace. Sam’s was more famous than all of them, perhaps, but if the goal is respecting or honouring or remembering our history, then a neon sign accomplishes very little.

The proper place for the sign, I propose, is in a museum dedicated to Toronto’s fascinating history. We often think of ourselves as staid and unambitious, but our radically evolving neighbourhoods and streetscapes — which you can pore over on the endlessly diverting Lost Toronto blog — show that we have relentlessly, unapologetically and repeatedly reinvented ourselves in the name of commerce and better living. What has been “lost” — the physical spaces, the smells, the memories — needn’t be mourned, but should absolutely be remembered.

Recreating some of those streetscapes in some fashion, either virtually or physically, should be a key role of any Toronto history museum. Interiors, too: What if we had saved some of Sam the Record Man’s retail space — the chipped linoleum, the posters, the bins full of vinyl? Imagine physically visiting a diner in the 1930s, a tailor’s shop in the 1910s, a windowless pub from the Temperance Act era, or a fully functioning and authentically seedy Yonge Street video arcade (albeit smoke-free) circa 1987. Done properly, it would be spine-tingling.

Toronto may not have the most violent or spectacular history, though we have William Lyon Mackenzie’s march down Yonge, not one but two Great Fires, the Jubilee riots (Protestants vs. Catholics) in 1875 and the Christie Pits riot (Jews and their supporters vs. a xenophobic mob) in 1933. The SS Noronic burned in the harbour in 1949, at a cost of 118 souls, and Hurricane Hazel killed 81 in 1954.

We have our mysteries and gruesome stories: The disappearance of theatre impresario Ambrose Small, which Arthur Conan Doyle might have solved had he agreed to take the case. Prolific and well-travelled serial murderer H.H. Holmes killed Alice and Nellie Pitezel in a rented house at 16 St. Vincent Street, which no longer exists. I had never heard of it until I read Erik Larson’s Devil in the White City, where it’s basically just a footnote.

The TTC brought much grief upon itself by advocating for its own museum at the height of the city’s budget crunch — “I visit the TTC museum every day,” was a common quip — but there should be a proper museum of Toronto’s old subway cars (however few are left), streetcars, buses and assorted memorabilia.

Where on earth could we put all this? Well, we just so happen to have 250,000 square feet sitting unused down on Unwin Avenue, just waiting for a plan: the hulking, disused Hearn Generating station, subject of all manner of plans — most notably a three-pad hockey facility — none of which seem close to fruition. “Cities all over the world would be over the moon to have a building like the Hearn,” photographer Dan Dubowitz told the Post’s Peter Kuitenbrouwer when demolition was a distinct possibility. He’s right. I like the hockey facility idea. But I like the idea of an ambitious, large-scale celebration of Toronto’s history even more. It’s probably big enough for both.

Sign debate heats up

News that city heritage staff support Ryerson University’s plan to commemorate, rather than rehang, the Sam the Record Man sign has sparked a growing debate. Ryerson had promised to incorporate the iconic neon sign in its new building at the store’s old location, but later backed away from that commitment. It cited safety and architectural concerns for the request and has proposed a new plan to embed smaller, replica signs on Yonge St. The debate over Ryerson’s proposal goes to Toronto and the East York Community Council on Sept. 10, but in the meantime the issue is being discussed on Twitter and elsewhere. Here is a sampling of some of the opinions being expressed.

• Councillor Shelley Carroll: “Residents lined Yonge St the night they turned it off & shed tears. #SaveSam’sSign #TOpoli”

• Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong: “Ryerson should do more to save the neon records. It means so much to so many. @TOpoli”

• Councillor Josh Matlow: “At the next Community Council, I’ll be making the case to hold Ryerson to its word & preserve Toronto’s iconic Sam the Record Man sign.”

• Councillor Adam Vaughan: “If you’re going to restore things there needs to be a level of practicality. I’ve heard the cry to save it, what I haven’t heard is the practical way of doing it.”

• Musician Ron Sexsmith: “Here’s hoping the folks at Ryerson will keep their word and remount the iconic Sam the Record Man sign on Yonge Street where it belongs.”

• Musician Gordon Lightfoot: “The giant neon spinning discs are a reminder of the huge role that Sam Sniderman and his store played in the cultural life of Toronto and I believe they should be preserved and remounted in the interests of our city’s heritage.”

• Evan Newman: “Put the Sam the Record Man sign at SKydome and have it light up every time the @BlueJays win. That will surely keep the electricity bill low.”

• Joe Byer: “I really don’t care what Ryerson does with the Sam the Record Man sign. #confessyourunpopularopinion”

[charlene]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...pin_again.html

By: Laura Kane News reporter, Published on Sun Sep 08 2013

When Jack Markle was wooing his wife-to-be, he would drive her around Toronto, pointing to his neon signs like glowing tourist landmarks.

“That one’s mine,” he’d say, as they breezed past a flashing fast food mascot or a swirling logo atop a movie theatre.

These days, the spry 74-year-old sign maker can still claim plenty of the city’s signage as his own. But two of his crowning achievements are set to fade from Toronto’s skyline.

Markle and his brother, Sam, created both Sam the Record Man’s spinning LP and the computer that illuminates Honest Ed’s giant, whirling letters (although the Mirvish store sign itself was designed by a different firm).

Ryerson University recently bailed on a deal to reinstall the Sam the Record Man sign on its new Yonge St. building, while David Mirvish announced plans in July to sell the entire block and a half where Honest Ed’s stands.

As Markle flips through a photo album in the Brothers Markle headquarters, surrounded by buzzing neon art, he calls Sam’s sign both an “icon” and a “drawing card to Toronto.”

“It’s history,” he says. “You wouldn’t go to Paris without seeing the Eiffel Tower, you wouldn’t go to New York without seeing Times Square. . . . It’s the same thing. You can’t go to Toronto without seeing Sam the Record Man.”

Markle is one of more than 900 people who have signed a petition to stop the city from letting Ryerson off the hook for rehanging the sign, which the university promised to do in 2008 after purchasing the Sam the Record Man property.

Ryerson has unveiled an alternative plan to embed replica signs in the sidewalk and hang a commemorative plaque, which will be debated Tuesday by the Toronto and East York Community Council.

“I think that’s a big mistake,” says Markle. “The sign was visible by all vehicular traffic. If it snows, you won’t even be able to see the sidewalk.”

Markle launched his sign making business with his brother in the mid-1960s. Several years later, Sam Sniderman contacted them about changing a small sign on his Yonge St. storefront.

But the Markles weren’t content to let Sniderman stay small. When one of their designers, Jack Derraugh, suggested a two-storey spinning record with lit neon tubes, they urged the record store owner to use the bold design.

Sniderman initially balked at the $16,000 price tag, but after he convinced RCA, Columbia, Sony and Warner Bros. to chip in $5,000 each to feature their logos on the sign, he ended up profiting from the purchase.

“Sam got us to do the names in there for free,” says Markle with a chuckle. “But we didn’t care. We knew if we made the sign, it would become an icon in Toronto.”

Markle’s company also created giant letters spelling “SAM” that sat on top of the building. In the 1980s, Sniderman added a second spinning-record sign, which Markle called “overkill.”

In fact, the sign maker is now recommending that Ryerson only put up one of the signs and fundraise the cost. Musicians such as Gordon Lightfoot, Ron Sexsmith and Danny Marks have voiced their support for the iconic sign.

Markle also disputes many of Ryerson’s reasons why restoring and hanging the sign is impractical. He called a projected $250,000 price tag “astronomical,” adding he would like a chance to do an estimate of his own.

He also says the sign only required occasional maintenance over the years, with neon tubes lasting up to a decade. And while neon experts are becoming harder to find, they aren’t obsolete, he adds.

As for mercury spillage in the event of fire or damage — one of the concerns raised by the university and city — Markle scoffs. The sign was up for 40-odd years without incident, he says.

“Did you hear about all those people in Times Square who died of mercury poisoning?” he jokes. “All those people in Tokyo? What a tragedy.”

A woman who answered the phone at Gregory’s, the sign company consulted by Ryerson, said the person who completed the estimate was on vacation. She did not provide a name.

As for Honest Ed’s, the Toronto retail landmark destined for sale by 2016, Markle says the sign is so massive he isn’t sure where the city would be able to house it, if at all. The store manager has said the sign is too damaged to save.

The Brothers Markle is still going strong, creating signs and lighting for municipalities, retailers and the occasional private home. Fewer people ask for neon these days, but it’s still his favourite medium, says Markle.

“Neon is not dead. It is still an exciting art form. It would be a pity and a shame to have (Sam’s sign) come down.”

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https://www.facebook.com/SaveSamSign

I attended the council meeting on Tuesday. Ryerson had legal jibber jabber try to explain away their situation. They never had any architectural renderings to incorporate the sign on Yonge St. or the alternate site on Gould. They have the excuses of cost, mercury leakage etc. but it seems the shiny new building just won't be as nice with the sign. Well the agreement with Sam was to do just that so they should have made sure that the sign fit into the new buildings shiny new look.

The President of Ryerson insists they didn't 'renege' on their deal. Well I looked up renege in my trusty old dictionary and it seems more than perfect to describe what they've done. There has been support from Gordon, Liona Boyd, Blue Rodeo, Music Canada, Tom Cochrane, several Toronto councillors, Michael Wrycraft (album cover designer) and others. The amendment that was passed on Tuesday.Sept.10 said that Ryerson has one year to come up with a new plan. However there is nothing in the amendment stating what will happen if they don't!They will have reached their contracted storage plan and somebody will have to take over the payments on it. And it still won't be re-mounted anywhere!

For any of you who have been to TO and were able to visit the store before the teardown and know what the historical significance of it and the sign and dear Mr. Sniderman to the music industry in not only Toronto but Canada at a time when all of those wonderful music spots and musicians were everywhere in the city core please consider supporting the original agreement that Mr.Sniderman and Ryerson University had for the refurbishing and remounting of those two beautiful spinning neon discs at or near the location of the store. For those who just love to save historical heritage buildings, landmarks etc. please support this initiative. I will have contact info very soon.

The Facebook page linked above has lots of daily updates, new postings from supporters, and pictures etc.

[charlene]

website for the cause: http://4479toronto.ca/4479-supports-...fy-a-location/

[jj]

screw RyHigh - i think they should erect a long overdue Canuck Music Hall of Fame.. one which has a huge solar panelled roof which can power the 2 Sam's spinning disks ...it can be over on Bathurst and power the Honest Ed's marquee as well... the mercury spill issue is worth monitoring... now, if they ever take the MLG sign down, we'll all be marching on Yonge St.... the most hoppin' mad feet in the world

.

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http://ryersonian.ca/?p=4047

https://www.facebook.com/SaveSamSign - scroll thru for news updates and endorsements from lots of artists..

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http://www.samsbelleville.com/store/...-t-shirtmedium

[jj]

they should install it outside the Belleville (Qunite) Mall... and Ryerson pays hydro bill too!

last year i went thru the LP's they have and picked up SDYS (not a scratch) for $7

if you do a catalogue search online they list one album as SDYM(an) ...lol

Sam the Record Man - YES THIS IS the last SAM...

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from the Sniderman sons:

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http://www.ryersonian.ca/?p=4047

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ANYONE CAN SEND AN E-MAIL - If you wish to email a letter calling on the Mayor and Councillors to reject proposed amendments to Ryerson's deal with the City about the Sam's sign, send it to:
clerk@toronto.ca
Put in the subject line:
City Council Meeting 8 October 2013 Agenda Item TE26.34 Proposed Amendments to Agreements between Ryerson University & City of Toronto - Sam The Record Man Signs.
Be sure to send it by tomorrow at 5 p.m. and state your email is for distribution to Council.

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Ronnie Hawkins Talks Sam the Record Man - YouTube

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Daniel Lanois

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqjFdmOz49k