This site and the alt.music.lightfoot newsgroup

Paul · 07-18-2002, 07:36 AM

UPDATE: As of now, August 2004, I would recommend Corfid over the newsgroup. I still find multiple places too time consuming, but it works for many people. What follows is my original post from 2002.
---------------------------------------------
Okay, I'm going to say this here one time. Old timers here, please bear with me.

Since Florian started this site there have been two places for Lightfoot discussion; this discussion group and the Usenet newsgroup alt.music.lightfoot . The newsgroup has existed for many years, and although the person who started it no longer participates, it enjoys some degree of continued participation among oldtimers and newcomers. It is more visible than a discussion group buried on an otherwise inactive web site (or any web site, in fact), and because it is part of Usenet more newcomers stumble over it.

I have friends on both lists, and some of us here do participate on both, but it is really a shame that we can't get everybody into one group. There are often interesting topics here that the newsgroup would be interested in, and of course the opposite applies as well.

So I will make this one plea to those of you here: can you all come over to the newsgroup? I think you will find it rewarding, and those of you who have never been there will meet many more new "Lightheads".

In the past I have tried to post news both places, but frankly it is time consuming. Cathy has taken up the mantle and occasionally cross posts here for me. But I would really love to see us all together on the newsgroup.

I don't mean to step on any toes. I make this suggestion this once. If you want to visit the newsgroup and don't know how, write to me and I will give you several ways of doing it.

In general, there is a lot more activity on the newsgroup as there are more people there, but it has its quiet days too. Of course if you guys come over, even that would change!

------------------
Valerie Magee

Visit my GL web site at gordonlightfoot.com

[This message has been edited by vlmagee (edited August 13, 2004).]

vlmagee · 07-18-2002, 07:36 AM

UPDATE: As of now, August 2004, I would recommend Corfid over the newsgroup. I still find multiple places too time consuming, but it works for many people. What follows is my original post from 2002.
---------------------------------------------
Okay, I'm going to say this here one time. Old timers here, please bear with me.

Since Florian started this site there have been two places for Lightfoot discussion; this discussion group and the Usenet newsgroup alt.music.lightfoot . The newsgroup has existed for many years, and although the person who started it no longer participates, it enjoys some degree of continued participation among oldtimers and newcomers. It is more visible than a discussion group buried on an otherwise inactive web site (or any web site, in fact), and because it is part of Usenet more newcomers stumble over it.

I have friends on both lists, and some of us here do participate on both, but it is really a shame that we can't get everybody into one group. There are often interesting topics here that the newsgroup would be interested in, and of course the opposite applies as well.

So I will make this one plea to those of you here: can you all come over to the newsgroup? I think you will find it rewarding, and those of you who have never been there will meet many more new "Lightheads".

In the past I have tried to post news both places, but frankly it is time consuming. Cathy has taken up the mantle and occasionally cross posts here for me. But I would really love to see us all together on the newsgroup.

I don't mean to step on any toes. I make this suggestion this once. If you want to visit the newsgroup and don't know how, write to me and I will give you several ways of doing it.

In general, there is a lot more activity on the newsgroup as there are more people there, but it has its quiet days too. Of course if you guys come over, even that would change!

------------------
Valerie Magee

Visit my GL web site at gordonlightfoot.com

[This message has been edited by vlmagee (edited August 13, 2004).]

Suzi · 07-18-2002, 11:09 AM

I would hate to see this discussion forum meld with the newsgroup.

This panel is so much more mellow and friendly than the other group (IMO). I remember on the other site, not too long ago, someone asked about Gordon and his drug use, and he was told to "...p**s off". I do hope that would not occur here.

Also, the other group has a tendency to veer off topic and pat each other on the back too much.

Nope, I'm happy with the status quo.

Just my opinion.

Suzi

Rebecca · 07-18-2002, 07:20 PM

I read the posts at the newsgroup regularly, but I like this forum as well. Is it really so bad to have both?

[This message has been edited by Rebecca (edited July 18, 2002).]

Brian 57 · 07-18-2002, 09:03 PM

With Lightfoot all around us we're like weavers at the loom...

SilverHeels · 07-19-2002, 05:21 AM

Rebecca,

I agree with you.

Ed Mullen · 07-19-2002, 11:02 PM

Anyone who recognizes me will know that I never post here. And I'll say that I have only visited here a handful of times in the past.

The only reason I intrude on your discussions tonight is that I was directed here after participating in a chat room and the topic of Val's post here arose. That "other venue" was fun but hardly civil. Seemed like the main purpose for some was to see how badly they could piss people off. Oh well. Not my style, not my thing.

So, my two cents (what is that in Euros now anyway?) and to the point.

My life would surely be less complicated if I had a single venue to visit for ALL Lightfoot info. I mean, just from an information management standpoint alone, it would be wonderful!

However, some things come immediately to mind. One, it isn't going to happen because of the anarchistic nature of the Internet. It simply can't happen. Not to mention human nature.

Two, if it did, I probably would find myself in a position where the "official" venue was NOT the one I normally prefer. And, left with no choice, I'd be irritated (read that "pissed off") to be forced into a mold not of my own choosing. Freedom of choice is a good thing.

Next, a single choice is the least desirable model for communication and human interaction. I've noticed that each Lightfoot venue has its distinct personality - and personalities! I primarily avail myself of the alt.music.lightfoot newsgroup. Why? Well, doesn't really matter to anyone else but, since I've read ahead to the various responses to Val's message, I'll explain. Because my reasons are like others expressed - but my choice is different.

For me, and it is, I guess, just the way my mind works, I like the structure of the newsgroup. I find it the easiest to track, to navigate, to follow. My email client software is the same one I use for newsgroups. And I find it much more attractive than a browser.
the vagueries of HTML-based systems and the lack of ahered-to standards drive me up a wall. So, anyway, I do the newsgroup. And I'm NOT advocating anyone abandon this site! Just a perspective, ok?

However, availability of variety of opinion, interesting and lively thought aside, I must say that the overall factor influencing my choice of who I have dinner with or what online venues I peruse, is civility. The newsgroup seems to be a very accommodating place to be. Nice people, interesting topics, humor, all in all a good community. the few times I've scanned this group it seems to be largely the same.

Other venues I will rarely drop in on can sometimes be great fun. Real free-for-all anything goes kind of chaos. My mind can barely keep up. And I am easily turned off by ad-hominen arguments. I find no joy nor satisfaction in attacking people on a personal level. So, some venues I just won't go back to. some people seem to only be able to exist by tearing others down. I just don't get that.

Val, I hear your plea. I even agree that it would simlify my life if we all could find a single place to co-exist. But it isn't practical, it isn't going to happen, and it would guarantee that a whole bunch of people would be unhappy if it did happen. So, it shouldn't happen. Just smile, sit back and enjoy. Your site is wonderful. The newsgroup is great. This is a nice place with nice people. Let's nurture the good places and people and let the others go where they may.

Just my two cents in the interests of world harmony. Besides, in the face of discord on the topic of music and Gordon Lightfoot, I'll do what I have done before ... I'll go away and be invisible for a year or so until the nonsense abates and people start being civil again.

Ed

Sheila Ann · 07-20-2002, 12:23 AM

With this forum, the newsgroup, special groups and chatrooms I have choices. I can stay informed if I really want to by moving from group to group...which I do. Each group has its own flavor and that keeps them all interesting to me. There are others like me who travel in and out of the various groups who are sure to point fellow (or new) posters toward Val's site or some other group/site that may be more valuable for current information than this site is. This site, however, still has its charm and some wonderful archives of information. On this site, too, I feel less inhibited and more apt to expound on a topic...like I seem to be doing right now!
On the newsgroup I am far more inhibited and less likely to post at all. Right now there is a very 'healthy' thread running that asks the lurkers there to please speak up. One of the respondents described the group as 'clubby'. I would agree but that's its flavor. You know it going in and post...or not! Still lots of information flowing so take the good with the maybe not so good. Choices, again.
Guess that's my long version of asking, 'why not continue to have both?'
And Suzi...there have been some very tense moments on this site over the years it has been here so please don't let the rudeness of some insecure poster on the newsgroup keep you from dropping in from time to time...or even from posting there.
Sheila-B

BILLW · 07-20-2002, 07:54 AM

You're all right! How's that for a mellow reply?
I love your site Val and IMO it's the best one there is, I will try and check out the newsgroup as you suggest. However, this site reminds me of being adrift on a crippled ocean liner, just shooting the breeze, waiting, hoping for the Coast Guard to show up..... or maybe hoping they won't! LOL

Bill

SilverHeels · 07-20-2002, 11:34 AM

Bill,

what a great description of Corfid!
Florian will love it when and if he ever
returns! Last time I saw him was at Massey
in May 2001, snuggling into Char's warm
embrace.

Personally, I hope the Coast Guard never
show up ... I love it, here in the lee of
Christian Island ... :0

07-20-2002, 02:46 PM

I haven't posted here in a long time, nor do I post on the newsgroup much if at all these days either, but I can't agree that there should be only one place that Lightfoot fans should hold discussions. As has already been pointed out, each venue has a different "personality," either of which some folks might be more comfortable with. On the newsgroup for example, although it is certainly a polite and civil forum, many threads often start out interesting, but seem to turn into a personal conversation between three or four people. Once in a while is no problem, but I think when it becomes constant like it has in the last few years, it tends to make some others shy of posting.
The threads here are diverse and usually stay on topic. Usually.
Also Val, I have to disagree with you about your statement that newbies would be more likely to stumble upon the newsgroup than this forum. I've met more then a few people in the last few years, who think that the world wide web IS the internet. I'm not talking about just AOLers either, on the contrary, while its rather easy for someone with AOL to locate newsgroups, people on other ISPs often have no idea how to locate them or that they even exist. Seems like a great deal of newbies, and oldies for that matter seek out information soley on web search engines. This site, despite not being updated a while, still as far as I know, will show up on a websearch.
I think if this discussion forum were abandoned, less people would actually wind up finding the newsgroup since they would wind up never communitcating with people here who would have other wise have told them about it. I'm sure all of us who have been around for a while have met people on one forum or another, who have thought it was the one out there till they asked about others. If the one they'd found first had been abandoned, they would have never found the others.
Therefor, as far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier.
Erica

mytoyota@earthlink.net · 07-20-2002, 09:52 PM

For a lot of reasons I feel more comfortable here, most all of them have been mentioned.

The reason I came here tonight was because of something I read on the newsgroup, that made me feel uncomfortable.

I said to myself, go to the one that makes you feel more free to express yourself. Then I ran across this thread.

Coincidence?

I vote for freedom of choice.

Besides, I like new messages to be posted right away, as opposed to 3-9 hours.

Kim

------------------
paperback dreams . . .

SilverHeels · 07-21-2002, 08:17 AM

Kim,

now you know there is NO such thing as
*coincidence* ...

Old Dan · 07-22-2002, 08:53 PM

I'm always impressed at the gentle humor of this board, the caring consideration of the posts, and the incredible depth of knowledge! I would vote to keep things the way they are. This is a rare joy on the 'net.

Brian 57 · 07-22-2002, 09:46 PM

Sometimes life gets to you. There are daily pressures, things to do, places to go people to see even if you don't want to do, go or see anything. In the whole she-bang of life, talking about the work of one singer-songwriter won't make any great impact on the world. But then, that's the beauty of it-- it's no big deal! Nobody's going to go hungry, no one will die, nobody's going to jail or even have their life shifted on iota because of what we say here. We get to say what's on our mind about a subject for which there is no argument. It's like a game of catch on a lazy summer afternoon. You toss an idea for me to catch, I toss it back without trying to make you miss it. There are times to play catch, and times to do skill drills. Let's play catch here-- it's fun!

johnfowles · 08-13-2004, 09:07 AM

I am replying today to bring this back to trhe top of the pile here in view of the current thread on the Newsgroup in which another Brit took me to task for advertising this board's existence on the Newsgroup
Also in view of my weekly adverts here for the Newsgroup itself I would be interested to
hear the comments/opinions of anyone else from corfid especially anybody who has looked at the NG for the first time as a result of my highlights listings

------------------
My Gordon Lightfoot webring
starts at
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/lightfoot

johnfowles · 08-13-2004, 09:07 AM

I am replying today to bring this back to trhe top of the pile here in view of the current thread on the Newsgroup in which another Brit took me to task for advertising this board's existence on the Newsgroup
Also in view of my weekly adverts here for the Newsgroup itself I would be interested to
hear the comments/opinions of anyone else from corfid especially anybody who has looked at the NG for the first time as a result of my highlights listings

------------------
My Gordon Lightfoot webring
starts at
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/lightfoot

SilverHeels · 08-13-2004, 10:37 AM

John,
I have no wish to get into a argument with anyone over at the NG - I'm too busy

but I'm in agreement with you. IMO Kevin's comment - intentional or not - was somewhat offensive to Corfid and those of us who post here. I visit the NG when I have time but as I am not a musician, just a fan, I find Corfid more comfy for me. Besides, why cant we have two Lightfoot Forums? The more the merrier as far as I am concerned.
Having said that, I do feel you were a wee bit harsh with Derek - especially in public. I dont think he deserved that.

I love your 'Highlights' and thank you again for all your hard work, John. The Lightfoot internet community is richer because of you and your amazing enthusiasm.
Cheers, buddy!

Station Master · 08-13-2004, 01:11 PM

i don't think the whole world has to drink from one water cooler
...besides, we'd bang heads (even more, lol)

i must say that i miss (well, hardly remember) the days when the whole planet hung on by the radio listening closely for news (regarding, war, stocks, the Leafs, lol or whatever) and received it all at once

if that's what Val is in part saying then i tip my cap, it's one of the reasons that listening to gord on radio (or internet)last friday night was even more bonding, imo

aside, i think internet discussion and e-mail breaks altogether are often healthy, i feel one coming but this has been an exciting time and will probably continue thru the Idol appearance and the fall benefit gig... when there's no news things and folks get overgoofy (no exception here!) and there's even more miscommunication/hurt

but i'd 'thirst' for John's thoughts&links

jj · 08-13-2004, 01:11 PM

i don't think the whole world has to drink from one water cooler
...besides, we'd bang heads (even more, lol)

i must say that i miss (well, hardly remember) the days when the whole planet hung on by the radio listening closely for news (regarding, war, stocks, the Leafs, lol or whatever) and received it all at once

if that's what Val is in part saying then i tip my cap, it's one of the reasons that listening to gord on radio (or internet)last friday night was even more bonding, imo

aside, i think internet discussion and e-mail breaks altogether are often healthy, i feel one coming but this has been an exciting time and will probably continue thru the Idol appearance and the fall benefit gig... when there's no news things and folks get overgoofy (no exception here!) and there's even more miscommunication/hurt

but i'd 'thirst' for John's thoughts&links

Don Quixote · 08-13-2004, 01:41 PM

I have to admit that I have not been on the other site. In all honesty, I really like the folks that post here, their wisdom and knowledge, and especially the little word battles that go on, but always with a sense of honour and dignity.
I also agree that there will never be one of anything on the net, nor should there be.
"If it's not broken, don't fix it!"
Sean

searam · 08-13-2004, 01:41 PM

I have to admit that I have not been on the other site. In all honesty, I really like the folks that post here, their wisdom and knowledge, and especially the little word battles that go on, but always with a sense of honour and dignity.
I also agree that there will never be one of anything on the net, nor should there be.
"If it's not broken, don't fix it!"
Sean

08-13-2004, 06:19 PM

I simply prefer the format here. The alt site isn't as user friendly from a graphics and access point of view. And I rarely have to wade through spam messages here.

08-13-2004, 06:19 PM

I simply prefer the format here. The alt site isn't as user friendly from a graphics and access point of view. And I rarely have to wade through spam messages here.

BILLW · 08-14-2004, 06:31 AM

Our rating has been upgraded, this is a good reason to celebrate.

Bill


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