GL's guitar's

[New 12 String Mike]

I'd have to disagree that Martin laminate guitars are of lesser quality. Lesser grade materials, sure, but the quality is still there. I too played an Ovation, in my case for 30 years.

Then after all that time, I played a Martin DXM. The DXM is a Martin HPL all laminate guitar. The "wood grain" is counter top photos. Didn't matter. After Ovation, owning a synthetic guitar wasn't a problem. Regardless... the sound was there. My DXM isn't my D-28, but then it only cost a couple hundred dollars.. The sound is excellent. It IS a Martin. These guitars allow players without lots of money to own and play a Martin guitar if they want to. They work.

They may not be to everyone's taste, and that's OK. If you don't want to play laminates, only play solid wood, sure. A good laminate is still a good guitar.

[fezo]

Well, my point was more that laminates don't age. Neither does cedar. If you like the sound of it when new and are OK with the fact that it won't change over the years you're in! This is about the tops really. The backs and sides aren't as important.

I have a guitar with a laminate top in the house - an old Yamaha. I also have a OO with a cedar top. They are fine. Just different things.

Last night I was out seeing Rodney Crowell and his lead player, Will Kimbrough, was playing one of those old Yamahas. I got to talk to him for a minute afterward. He normally plays a D-18 but the airline cracked the side so he went into emergency mode. It sounded fine.

You'll certainly never find one guitar where everyone agrees that this is the best.

Gordon who is set on that one model 12 string is an exception for the most part.

Originally Posted by New 12 String Mike

I'd have to disagree that Martin laminate guitars are of lesser quality. Lesser grade materials, sure, but the quality is still there. I too played an Ovation, in my case for 30 years.

Then after all that time, I played a Martin DXM. The DXM is a Martin HPL all laminate guitar. The "wood grain" is counter top photos. Didn't matter. After Ovation, owning a synthetic guitar wasn't a problem. Regardless... the sound was there. My DXM isn't my D-28, but then it only cost a couple hundred dollars.. The sound is excellent. It IS a Martin. These guitars allow players without lots of money to own and play a Martin guitar if they want to. They work.

They may not be to everyone's taste, and that's OK. If you don't want to play laminates, only play solid wood, sure. A good laminate is still a good guitar.

lol that's what I feel/say about my Goya G-125...It IS a Martin . I don't know too much about classical guitars -but I just love the mellow tone on this one. And I did write one song using it. I've held on to it now -thinking to use it as a trade-in but the value is too low to consider this. This is an under-valued, under-rated guitar from what I've read up on it. yeah it has all the cheap (plastic tuning keys even...I've never had a guitar w/those) parts but this hasn't seemed to have any affect on the sound and playability.

[fezo]

Nothing wrong with a Goya! Nice guitars. I don't have any classicals (or any class...) but I've played ones belonging to other folks. Nice stuff.

As far as undervalued I'd like to buy undervalued and sell overvalued but it never works out taht way. Actually I seldom sell. I have an old Guild bass that I've had for 35 years! And I still have the little Gibson LG-1 that I got in 1965!

One thing that makes me kind of drool at the moment is a Gibson Advanced Jumbo. Very pretty guitar.

[RM]

Speaking of guitars.........

What method(s) do you guys use to introduce some humidity into your instruments ?

[DawnsMinstrel]

I bought some gadgets that are designed specifically for this purpose a while ago after my DCX-1E developed a crack right down the middle of the sound board. They're these little sacs made out of a material that looks like felt and they have a cap on them which one unscrews. Then you fill the sac up with water cap it, and leave the whole thing in the case with the guitar. Water evidently slowly seeps through the sac at a rate that keeps the environment inside the case sufficiently moist. It really does seem to work and I do find that they have to be refilled regularly during winter time.

Actually, here's a link to the gadget I use - at least I think this is it:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...ier?sku=421665

-DM

Originally Posted by RM

Speaking of guitars.........

What method(s) do you guys use to introduce some humidity into your instruments ?

I've never had to in NE - just maintain relative temp/humidity which is easy to do here.

[JohninCt.]

I used to have an old 1960 Goya back in the Folk era 60's. It was a F19 model which one of the guys in Peter Paul and Mary played. It was made so you could use either steel strings or nylons. Had wonderful sound. I had it in the Army in 64-67 and it used to put guys to sleep when I played it. It got stolen when they broke into my car in Houston,Texas in 1969 along with a Teardrop Vox electric guitar. That really hurt. I now have a 1969 Martin D-28. and a Martinez nylon string, a 1988 Gibson Les Paul Studio, a Gibson Avenger from 1982 I think, a Gibson ES 225, and a Ovation Balladeer from some time back in the 70's, and a privately made Telecaster using Fender pickups and gold trim with some nice body parts that I am not sure who made them, I bought it cheap from a guy who used to own a music store and built it for himself, plays nice and sounds nice. Most just sit in cases and I hardly ever play anything any more, the only 2 which are strung is the nylon Martinez and the Telecaster copy. Just have basicly lost interest. Never was that much of a player any way. I remember when Gordon and Terry got those expensive guitars, as I had asked Terry about them when I seen it up close. They looked pretty much like a Martin if I remember them right. They did sound excellent though.

[eagle670]

Well I just thought I would give you all an update on my guitar search. I had an original price range of about $700.00, but after seeing some of the quality offered for that amount, I have decided to shoot a little higher. There is a chance that I could get a Huss & Dalton or possibly a Bourgeois. Understand that I have not even picked up one of the guitars, because the prices start out around $3000.00. However an opportunity has come about where I might be able to get one around the $1500 mark. Has anyone had any experience with these?? I probably won't get a chance to be able to afford a hand crafted guitar like this again, so if this comes about I am going to jump on it. I am sure that I could get my money out of it if it does not fit my playing style.

[RM]

Originally Posted by DawnsMinstrel

Actually, here's a link to the gadget I use
-DM

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna give it a shot. The last time I had my guitar in for a check-up I was told it was pretty dry.

Originally Posted by RM

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna give it a shot. The last time I had my guitar in for a check-up I was told it was pretty dry.

yeah, that can happen out in your neck of the woods

[DawnsMinstrel]

Hi Ron, it's worth a shot for sure. They do seem to work pretty well. The reason I wound up getting one was because of what happened with the DCX-1E so I maybe I'll take this opportunity to add my opinion regarding the question of quality of lower end martins.

Here's my story:

I was looking for a cutaway electro-acoustic that was in the 500-800 price range. The DCX-1E really impressed me. Somehow, in spite of being a laminate it really sounded nice and played well. Very easy to finger. So I picked one up for $600. Within 5 months it had developed a crack right down the middle of the sound board starting at the saddle and going all the way down.

This guitar lived in the same place as my almost 30 year-old D-35 which has endured much harsher conditions without a single crack. I took the guitar back to where I'd purchased it and was told that the warranty didn't cover the damage because it was due to my negligence letting it get too dry. They wanted $190 to fix it so I walked out of the store vowing never to buy anything there again.

I contacted Martin directly and got no response at all one way or the other. So I took it to a local Luthier who told me that the guitar was made almost entirely out of formica-only the soundboard is actually solid wood, and that the bracing on the sound board was also not up to Martin's standards for their higher end models. He fixed the crack for 50 bucks.

Someone else told me that the reason the DCX-1E cracked and the D-35 hasn't probably has to do with the fact that the wood used for newer guitars isn't as thoroughly dried before use. The luthier told me this was probably BS but I don't know who to believe.

Anyway, in the end, if I was told to keep it well humidified when I bought it (I don't remember but it's not as if I didn't know this) it's technically my fault that this happened. It's just that it was a shock after so many years without problems with the D-35, and with Martin not even responding to my inquiry.

So to those who say that the DX-martins are of good quality, I have to disagree based on what the luthier told me and my experience. They are not "real" Martins. They are not manufactured in the same way or using the same materials and standards of construction as are used at the factory. They are mass-produced and stamped with Martin's name and that's about it. I don't know if I'll even buy a Martin again after not even getting a response out of them when I contacted them.

Fingerstyle guitarists should check out Breedlove and Lowden. But be prepared to spend some money.

-DM

Originally Posted by JohninCt.

I used to have an old 1960 Goya back in the Folk era 60's. It was a F19 model which one of the guys in Peter Paul and Mary played. It was made so you could use either steel strings or nylons. Had wonderful sound. I had it in the Army in 64-67 and it used to put guys to sleep when I played it. It got stolen when they broke into my car in Houston,Texas in 1969 along with a Teardrop Vox electric guitar. That really hurt. I now have a 1969 Martin D-28. and a Martinez nylon string, a 1988 Gibson Les Paul Studio, a Gibson Avenger from 1982 I think, a Gibson ES 225, and a Ovation Balladeer from some time back in the 70's, and a privately made Telecaster using Fender pickups and gold trim with some nice body parts that I am not sure who made them, I bought it cheap from a guy who used to own a music store and built it for himself, plays nice and sounds nice. Most just sit in cases and I hardly ever play anything any more, the only 2 which are strung is the nylon Martinez and the Telecaster copy. Just have basicly lost interest. Never was that much of a player any way. I remember when Gordon and Terry got those expensive guitars, as I had asked Terry about them when I seen it up close. They looked pretty much like a Martin if I remember them right. They did sound excellent though.

Nice collection of vintage guitars! Sorry about your Goya and Vox. Sounds like you put the Goya to good use the several years you had it. I know I would have been crushed if any of my guitars had been stolen.

I would like to have an older Goya someday -the serial# on mine is high and I'd guess it's among the last that were made. I know they were common and inexpensive but I feel there's something magical about a Goya. Liona Boyd's 1st guitar was a Goya...and Stevie Nicks was too. Stevie wrote a song the 1st day she got hers. I had mine for a couple of months before I spent any time on it and I guess that 1st day -is when I wrote a song. I hadn't written anything in years!

Martinez..I remember those! Haven't seen or heard of one in years. Sorry to know you've lost interest in playing though. I'm not much of a player either and hadn't spent much time playing at all during the past decade (even went 4-5 years without a guitar) until last winter. I'm playing differently now and I've gotten a little better. Before, I felt like I had plateaued -didn't think my playing could progress.

I hope you can pick up playing again! I've been unemployed nearly 1/2 the time during the past few years so I've had the benefit of having some free time to pick up playing again.

[vlmagee]

RM, you don't have to buy anything. For my precious Martin D-18GL, I used one of the tried and true solutions - made a bit more difficult in these days of digital cameras, however. If you have a film camera and some film canisters, you are all set. If not, plastic soap dishes will work too. Punch a few holes in the top (I usually punch 3), and insert a wet piece of sponge. Bingo! Works like a charm. Obviously, be sure that your arrangement doesn't leak water on your guitar. In a dry climate, check the sponges every few days so you know how often to wet them. I use 3 canisters in my case, at the headstock end. This was adequate in Colorado too, where dryness is a problem, although my guitar was then almost 3 years old. The greatest danger of dryness-related damage is in the first 2 to 3 years when the wood is still drying naturally, and is therefore more susceptible to extremes. (Of course, this solution assumes that you keep your guitar in a case when you aren't playing it).

I just started playing again (well, okay, I played 4 or 5 times in the same month), and took my guitar in for a check-up after a guitar playing friend (singer/songwriter Michael Jerling) said that the action seemed too high for fingerpicking. My guitar was originally set up for fingerpicking, and the action was wonderful, but after not playing for so long I couldn't judge it myself. I went back to my Martin-authorized repair tech and he adjusted the truss rod, and did actually file the saddle a bit (without taking the strings off!). What a difference it made! No dryness issues at all.

For this professional service, I was charged the lofty sum of $25 ...

[RM]

Originally Posted by vlmagee

RM, you don't have to buy anything.

Too late.....I already ordered one. But I find the film canisters ( yes I have some hanging around. Why ? I don't know) option interesting. I will remember that tip.

[DawnsMinstrel]

Originally Posted by podunklander

Not your fault DM!!! In my opinion, there was an existing stress-related issue with your Martin unless it had been exposed to extreme heat and or humidity, etc. And there may have already been a hairline fracture that may not have been noticable.

Thanks Pam. I really don't think I exposed it to any extremes nor did it go from a humid to a dry environment quickly. It was gradual with the changing of the seasons and as I said before my, D-35 has endured nearly 30 such gradual changes in humidity without cracking. But my townhouse does get dry in winter because of the type of heating I have here.

When I said that it was "technically my fault" what I mean is that I couldn't honestly say that I hadn't been warned to keep the guitar in an environment of relatively constant humidity. In other words, the store and the maker felt that they had adequately covered their collective a**es. Hence my vow never to go to that store again and my heartache over the Martin Guitar Company's evident lack of sympathy.

I still love the Martin sound, though I prefer the D-28 to my own D-35. (I bought the 35 at a time when my ear was not as discerning as it is now.) So it's difficult for me to say I'll never buy another Martin, but since I'm about 80% fingerstylist, I have a lot of options other than Martin, and I'm not likely to get another one unless I get serious about bluegrass.

best wishes,

Tim

[fezo]

I don't do too much in the humidity department but I do use these at times - http://www.activemusician.com/item--...tar+Humidifier

Seems to be quite a bit of myths and misconceptions here so I found some professional links to technical leaflets...including one from the Canadian Conservation Institute...which is one of the tops in the field:


http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/cimcim/iht/iht.html
http://www.mnhs.org/about/publicatio...lkjuly2001.pdf

[JohninCt.]

Originally Posted by podunklander

Nice collection of vintage guitars! Sorry about your Goya and Vox. Sounds like you put the Goya to good use the several years you had it. I know I would have been crushed if any of my guitars had been stolen.

I would like to have an older Goya someday -the serial# on mine is high and I'd guess it's among the last that were made. I know they were common and inexpensive but I feel there's something magical about a Goya. Liona Boyd's 1st guitar was a Goya...and Stevie Nicks was too. Stevie wrote a song the 1st day she got hers. I had mine for a couple of months before I spent any time on it and I guess that 1st day -is when I wrote a song. I hadn't written anything in years!

Martinez..I remember those! Haven't seen or heard of one in years. Sorry to know you've lost interest in playing though. I'm not much of a player either and hadn't spent much time playing at all during the past decade (even went 4-5 years without a guitar) until last winter. I'm playing differently now and I've gotten a little better. Before, I felt like I had plateaued -didn't think my playing could progress.

I hope you can pick up playing again! I've been unemployed nearly 1/2 the time during the past few years so I've had the benefit of having some free time to pick up playing again.

When I bought my Goya, I had gone to NYC, on 49th street there were lots of music stores and I bought it there. from Terminal Music. It wasn't cheap back in those 1960 days, I think it cost me almost $300. I never bought another Goya after that, tried some but they never had it. I have had 50+ guitars thru my life, some great, some just fun to play. Many Yamahas, in the beginnings they were a pretty good guitar for the price, the old red labels models, especially the 140s, back in the late 60's thru late 1970's, I used to have one in the back of my car most the time. The Martinez is one of the best nylons I have ever owned for the sound and playability of it, it might be an exceptional one. I never had a Yamaha or any other nylon (except my old Goya) which played as sweet. I have had all kinds of Fender electrics and acoustics, I even had a Princess, which was a pink Fender with one pickup, made for girls, a collectors item now. Always wanted a Gibson ES350 (like Chuck Berrys) but never got one. My biggest screwup was passing on a $140 nylon string guitar in the early 70s, which I didn't know the name of at the time, too busy having fun and not doing my homework. It was a mint Ramirez classic. I didn't look it up till months later and found out it was worth about $800. Probably the worst (besides Stellas)I ever had was the nylons made over in Mexico, sold just over the border areas, they sound ok for a while but only last about 6 months, they used to cost around $15-20. I had a nice sounding Taylor about 20 years ago, but I always thought the neck was so thin that they wouldn't last thru the years, so I sold it. I play only once in a while as I say, but I forgot more than I can ever get back again. I play my drums once in a while also, and notice the age has taken it's toll on speed and rolls. No complaints though, it has all been fun and hope it continues for more years. The many times I played with friends in pleasant surroundings like the great outdoors, makes for lots of great memories. I think that is what it is all about for most of us.

[eagle670]

Have you had any experiences with Huss & Dalton or Bourgeois guitars.
Thanks

Originally Posted by eagle670

Have you had any experiences with Huss & Dalton or Bourgeois guitars.
Thanks

nope but I checked out the websites. $$$ guitars!!! Especially the latter -for which I didn't see any cutaways, but they have a slightly smalled nut size than the Huss & Dalton.

I was also looking at the Parker website -I've played a couple but the neck was too wide and I didn't care for the action.

I emailed a friend today about the Ovation custom legend but forgot the Kaman division she works for is now owned by Fender .

For the Huss & Dalton and Bourgeois...are there any dealers nearby where you are? That's one of my problems trying out these guitars but if you're looking at these more $$$ ones -perhaps they can ship you one to try?

2 more weeks and I'll be checking out guitars again .

[charlene]

Liona Boyd has a guitar for sale:
http://www.classicalguitar.com/guitarsforsale.php

[fezo]

Yeah, back then those were the REAL Goyas. They were rich for my blood especially considering I was a steel string guy.

If you want to spend serious money on a guitar there is certainly no shortage of folks making them. I've played a couple of Collings that I really liked but you could buy a decent used car for what you pay for one.

[JohninCt.]

Originally Posted by podunklander

whoa I didn't know the Goya cost so much back then -though that may depend on the model, etc. You've had some great guitars WOW. aw the Ramirez!!! damn!! Jose III, I assume it was a modern Ramirez?

gee I've only ever owned 5 or 6 guitars. I had the 3 new one's for awhile. The Ibanez that I'm always *itching about is the 1st used guitar I ever owned.

Sad thing, I was at an auction the other day and they had an older Ovation, and the bridge had pulled right up through the wood, it was still hanging on but the bridge was at a 45 degree angle, unfixable.
The Ramirez that I goofed on was in 1974 or 75, it was like new, so I don't think you would consider that modern. At the time I was into electric guitars, and from the same guy I had bought a 1969 Thinline Telecaster which was the one with the hollow body only made for 2 years. I only paid $175 for it with the case, which was a good deal, I sold it in 1994 for $1000 to a guy in a country band in NYC. Probably worth double+ that now. It had an excellent neck, but like most Teles was a bit weak on the low end of sound range, but it had a biting high end.
Yes, early nylon Goyas were in the upper class of guitars, about equal to Martins. About the early 1970s, they fell to Yamaha or worse status. I bought mostly used guitars, new is too much like a buying a car, take it out of the dealers and you just lost 1/3 or more of value, unless you hold on to them for many years and they become collectables. I have had Ibanez in both electric and hollows, but always steel strung models. I have always found them to be very playable but with some stiffness to thier sound, or not a lot of resonance to the wood. They always seemed heavier and with slightly thicker tops. Much like Albanez guitars. I guess it is just like any brand and you shop till you get one you like the feel and sound of.
I wonder what Gordons first few guitars were. They probably were secondary models also.

Good question, John (what Gordons 1st few guitars were).

I'm glad I have the Goya these days because I don't think I can play the Ibanez right now (I haven't tried though). I put light gauge, brass wound strings on a couple of weeks ago and didn't like the sound ...and the brass-wound did a number on my fingertips . I don't even think I'll ever play the Ibanez again and just going to wait until I can get another guitar.