Terry Clements or Red Shea??

[Jesse Joe]

Red Shea or Terry Clements?

Who do you prefer as Gord's lead guitarist. For me in the late 60's in, 'The New Penelope,' Coffee House in Montreal, Quebec. Gordon doing "Did She Mention MY Name," Gord {12 string,} Red Shea {6 string,} and Rick Haynes {Bass}.


That to me, was the best of Lightfoot. Classic Canadian Icon, Legend, Poet, Genius, Master, Gordon Lightfoot.

Red Shea was really making those strings, Dangled and Jangled of that ol' guitarin...JJ.

[ June 25, 2006, 10:05: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]

[halocat]

I posted the same comments a couple of years ago, much to the chagrin of some on the board. I like Terry, have met him, and he is a great guy, but Red Shea, in my humble opinion, is the best - just listen to IYCRMM, Miguel, Minstrel of the Dawn, and then compare to Terry's single note, repeating the melody leads - no comparison IMHO.
Sorry Terry!

[New 12 String Mike]

Is there really a comparison?

Gord's music changed from the Red years, to the Terry years.

The Red years were 2 guitars and a bass. The Terry years have included a larger band, with drums, keyboards, pedal steel, etc.

Yeah, I love Red's work on the early recordings, but I can't imagine Sundown, for instance, w/o Terry's electic lead.

Things change.

[Jesse Joe]

You know you are both correct. But if you have to choose between the music of yesteryears and todays. I much prefer yesteryears. The music was simpler. I guess that's the real question. Early Lightfoot or todays Lightfoot? Red Shea was most enjoyable, with the more hits. Listen to the beginning of the songs 'halocat', mentioned plus songs like, 'Magnificent Outpouring', Rosana, Im Not Sayin. The latter 2 I both learned how to play the opening riffs, from Gordon Lightfoot Anthology Vol {1}, created by Red Shea.

[ June 25, 2006, 13:32: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]

[closetcanadian]

Terry Clements is a very fine musician and a fine flat pick guitarist. But I bet even Terry himself would admit he is nowhere near the guitarist Red Shea is. I agree completely with halocat's comments, there really is no comparison between the two.

[Jesse Joe]

Any Newbies want to give there opinions here?

[Daylight Matty]

In my opinion, they are of equals. My favorite Gord albums have Red and Terry like Sundown, Don Quixote, and Cold On The Shoulder. I couldn't imagine what those albums would be like without one or the other.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by halocat:
I posted the same comments a couple of years ago, much to the chagrin of some on the board. I like Terry, have met him, and he is a great guy, but Red Shea, in my humble opinion, is the best - just listen to IYCRMM, Miguel, Minstrel of the Dawn, and then compare to Terry's single note, repeating the melody leads - no comparison IMHO.
Sorry Terry!

I agree 100%. Terry and Red have different style, and both are great guitar players. But I like Red's fingerpicking. I think Terry may be better on the rockier songs, where he can turn on some distortion and really do some ad libbing... like Baby Step Back and Sundown. I'm just no good at playing that style, and a little better at playing Red's style. Sometimes I think he must have a couple extra fingers on each hand, though.

[Kenyon]

I think both Red and Terry are incredible guitarists each with their own unique style.

Red Shea is definitely one of the great guitarists of modern music, there is no question. His fingerpicking techniques and innovative phrasings helped define the early "Lightfoot Sound". I know many people equate Gordon Lightfoot with the original trio of Lightfoot, Shea, and John Stockfish.

Terry Clements is also very creative in his phrasing and has created many famous Lightfoot licks like the opening of the Edmund Fitzgerald, Race Among the Ruins, Cold on the Shoulder, and Endless Wire. If you ever watch him in concert, he is incredibly subtle and knows just when to come in and when to let Lightfoot take the spotlight. He is also incredibly precise. If anyone has a copy of the 1973 Soundstage appearance, his guitar playing is nothing short of perfect.

Lightfoot has long been known to choose exceptional musicians and these two guitarists are a prime example of the calibre of music Lightfoot is known to produce. Much of his success belongs to his incredibly tight road-hardened band. Rarely do they miss a beat.

Kenyon

[brink-]

Kenyon - I think we should put a bug in Bernie's ear......they need to hire you as their promoter! Nice post! Well thought out and concise.

[marc in maine]

I'm gonna go with Red Shea 'cause everybody seems to be pickin' him, but, seriously, after reading this thread, I'm going to listen more carefully to Red. For me, Terry's guitar stands out more by way of acknowledgement, but again, I may need to hone my listening for a greater appreciation of Red's guitar.

[Jenney]

The guy behind me at the Burlington VT show took his seat, then said to the person next to him " I wonder if Red Shea is still with Lightfoot?". The other person asked who that was, and he said he was Gords lead guitar player, had been with him a long time. Then he went on to explain that Red played the slide guitar, the thing you could hear on Sundown.

He then proceeded to sing to 50% of the songs. I wouldn't have minded so much if he had gotten the words right, and picked an octave and stuck with it!
Jenney

[Jesse Joe]

marc in maine

Please watch this video, of "For Lovin Me". It is a little blurry, and they performed it over the original mastered recording. But never the less, it is Gord, Red, and Rick. Both on the master and in the video.

"The strings they jangled and dangled of the old guitarin." lol

Watch and listen to that wonderful sounding guitar, that Red plays, on the close up of him, watch his fingers, pure magic...Jesse.

Make no mistake about it, Terry's got his own magic, but of the two, for me it's Red. Plus for me, the Early Lightfoot stuff was better. Just my opinion...

Just click on,>>

"For Lovin Me".

[ August 08, 2006, 08:50: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Jenney:
The guy behind me at the Burlington VT show took his seat, then said to the person next to him " I wonder if Red Shea is still with Lightfoot?". The other person asked who that was, and he said he was Gords lead guitar player, had been with him a long time. Then he went on to explain that Red played the slide guitar, the thing you could hear on Sundown.

He then proceeded to sing to 50% of the songs. I wouldn't have minded so much if he had gotten the words right, and picked an octave and stuck with it!
Jenney

You should have told him to visit the archives of Wayne's site. It probably wouldn't hurt him to take a look at the lyrics, too. And then say, "Damn! You can't carry a tune in a paper bag!"

[marc in maine]

As a matter of fact, Jesse-Joe, I did view that video last night through a link provided by my confidant, Watchman (thanks, buddy!) My attention was definately being drawn to Red's side. When I saw him I could "hear" it better.(he was more of a showman than Gord...may that have created a rift between them?) But, my task is still to listen for him on my cd's. I've read that he plays lead on the hit song IYCRMM. I did enjoy those certain sections (I can't think of the words) where I heard the guitar picked after first believing it was strummed. That stood out as a pleasant surprise and that's what I'll be looking for. Would you recommend something that you like to that effect?

[Jesse Joe]

Oh yes indeed Marc, I dont think that Red left because of what you said of him being more of a showman. That is something that we should try to find out. Why Red left, when Lightfoot's carrer was really starting to climb the ladder. Health reasons maybe? Didn't like the touring? Someone definitely knows...

He created so many guitar riffs, for the early Lightfoot classics. I started to worship GL, in 1969, when I bought my first LP, "Did She Mention My Name." Now there's an LP right there, that shows the talent of all three guys , but especially the guitar sound of Red. Gord's voice was at its best.

Today I have every Lightfoot recording that a person can buy, plus others, that, well let's just say, Ive been lucky enough to obtain. Plus many video concerts. Television interviews, and what not.

As far as recommending Lightfoot's music, with Red Shea, I presumed is what you would like to have in your CD library. Start from the beginning, would be my best advise.

You can purchased all those early recordings today on CD's , I know because I have them all. The 5 United Artist LP's,

{1} Lightfoot
{2} The Way I Feel
{3} Did She Mention My Name
{4} Back Here On Earth
{5} Sunday Concert.

Then (Sit Down Young Stranger) or {IYCRMM}, Same LP. This album you will hear guitar strings, dangled and jangled, from Red's fingers. Many people have said of Red that he must have an extra finger, on both hands. lol

Sorry for my long letter Marc, hope it will help you choose your next Lightfoot CD...Jesse.

[ August 09, 2006, 08:02: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]

[Cathy]

I agree, Marc. Start at the beginning with the United Artists albums. Actually, there are a couple of compilations with all the albums on them, but it's nice to have the originals. Then start at the beginning of the Warner Bros./Reprise albums, starting with If You Could Read My Mind, all he way through A Painter Passing Through. There's a nice boxed set called Songbook that you should eventually look into getting. Then you can go after the bootlegs.

[Jesse Joe]

Great answer Cathy and fortunetly for me having started in 1969, I do own them all. And yes to the Bootlegs...

[Cathy]

I had Greatest Hits, from 8 track to cassette to CD. I think it was in 2000 that I bought the United Artist Collection, and in 2001 and 2002 I bought everything else. Since then, I've colleted the odds and ends.
Do you have the Reno DVD?

[Jesse Joe]

Marc! Cathy, had a good ideal there. Try to find, {The Original Lightfoot...The United Artist Years.} On it you will have 3 Cd's containing all 5 United Artist LP's. Lot's of Red Shea's magic on those..

On the first Reprise/WB Album Sit Down Young Stranger/ If You Could Read My Mind.)

Listen to, "Minstrel Of The Dawn", "Approaching Lavender",and "Sit Down Young Stranger"... Beautiful guitar strings on those songs.

[marc in maine]

Thank's for the great advice both of you! Fortunately, I have every original album (cd) that was released. I'm only missing a few songs like the previously unreleased one's on Songbook. I don't own any remake compilation. (yet)

My 1st cd was the UA release that has the 1st FOUR releases on 2 cd's (it frequently lists for $9.00!) and the quality is excellent. Those early releases are among my favorites.

A few songs were specifically mentioned above so I'll check them out. I'll be listening with new ears to better respond to this topic: who's more generally appealing to me...Red or Terry?

[Jim Nasium]

I am not going to express an opinion one way or the other, except to say they are both better than me. However I am particularly impressed with Red's fills on "Saturday Clothes" I am surprised nobody has mentioned that song in this thread.

[Jesse Joe]

Jim Nasium, you said it best, they are both better than me too. "Saturday Clothes", is yet another good one. You see there are so many, that it is difficult not to forget some...

[ August 11, 2006, 06:09: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]

[musky_man]

Red's rifts on CRT are masterful beyond comparison. Personally I think Red's contribution to Lightfoot's songs hastened Lightfoot's rise to the top.

Red is nearly 70 now (believe it or not) and continues to play guitar and teach a few fortunate guitar players - my brother being one.

Best to all.

[Jesse Joe]

musky_man, another Torontonian. Your brother is one lucky chap, being taught the guitar by The Best. I would try to get some Gordon Lightfoot stories out of him. Im sure there are some he would share, as well as others not...