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Old 04-26-2009, 02:49 AM   #1
The Rez
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Default Back Home in Derry

I recently attended a concert by The Fenians in Newport Beach, CA. Excellent!

After a dissertation on Bobby Sands important place in many an Irish heart,
they launched into *Back Home in Derry* . . . and a heartfelt rendering indeed it was.

No mention was made, however, of the melody having flowed from Gord's pen.
As I searched the net for more understanding of the song, I only found the
rare mention of Gord as having written the music upon which Bobby Sands
draped his *Back Home in Derry* lyric.

Admittedly, I haven't been up on my celtic music in quite some time.
Now I find beaucoups renditions of *Back Home in Derry* w/ nary a nod to Gord.

Anyone recall a to-do in the early 80's when *Back Home in Derry* first gained
universal celtic band street cred?

I don't recall mention of the song by Gord, or anyone else, back in that season.

Please enlighten me . . .

Blessings,

Rez
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:13 AM   #2
Peter Bro10
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Hey Rez,
I suggest using the "search" feature on this page. 6th item from the left, and simply search "back home in derry" and set to display "show threads"... Then watch what pops up!
Enjoy your reading... yes, this has been discussed before and no doubt will again.

I don't know if Gord officially approved the using of the melody from the Wreck for this song/tune... I've read a good deal and I'm still not sure.

There are a couple of youtube offerings that are well worth watching/listening to also.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Bro10 View Post
I don't know if Gord officially approved the using of the melody from the Wreck for this song/tune... I've read a good deal and I'm still not sure.
yeah, how does that work....just cos you give a nod tot he composer (ie. i took the melody from an existing tune written by another) does that make it allowable?...i think it's fine if you're Weird Al
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:23 PM   #4
The Rez
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Thanks for the *search* tip, Peter. I knew there was a way,
but was too sleepy last night to figure it out . . .
that and *navigation* in general being smarter than I am.

Re: Copyright Infringements

Wierd Al pays for the rights to do his parodies. In America,
Music Clearance is Big Stuff. Pretty much that way legally on
the global scale, too - supposedly.

But, in the midst of The Troubles, I doubt proper channels were pursued.
When a song like *Back Home in Derry* takes on a life of it's own
[grassroots style] it's likely beyond the point of asking to record it.

However, any recording of the song up for sale to the general public
*would* indeed bring Gord writer's royalties. Bobby Sands isn't much
bothered by it all, being dead and all, and likely didn't have a publishing
company to oversee his work.

Blessings,

Rez
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Bro10 View Post
I don't know if Gord officially approved the using of the melody from the Wreck for this song/tune... I've read a good deal and I'm still not sure.
Err Umm from one of the earlier threads on this subject:-
http://www.corfid.com/vbb/showthread...ack+home+derry
As previously posted by CHar
In the man's own words
from:-
http://www.sungazette.com/page/conte....html?nav=5016

"Lightfoot said he may have borrowed the song’s hook from an Irish folk song he heard in the early 1960s. He credits his band with creating the seafaring theme that cradles his desperate lyrics."
that sounds pretty conclusive to me
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:13 PM   #6
Peter Bro10
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Ok, so is this "Irish folk song" to which Gord refers to, is it possibly this song "Back home in Derry"?
Or is this melody sort of "generic" (for lack of a better word)... or maybe "traditional" might be a better word for it.

In any case, the SunGazette aritical is enlightening... Thanks Sir John!
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:10 PM   #7
jj
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

hey Rez, Sands only penned the words whereas it was Chrisy Moore who 'used the air' (hook/melody) of the Wreck for his verses in the mid80s, decades after the folk tune existed

Peter, i still don't know what the folk tune was...anyhow, there are several more links re this topic at this thread including one where Val posts an interesting section re rights

frankly, i am not concerned...as far as hooks go for story songs like the Wreck, Yarmouth Castle, etc, I'm far more taken back by the Miguel-like compositions in Gord's repertoire

enjoy
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:06 AM   #8
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Hey Folkies,

Thanks Big for the info.

I'd known Christy Moore brought *Derry* to prominence, but
- as did others - figured Gord's progressions and melody were
"borrowed" Also aware Bobby Sands wrote the saga which
Christy Moore conformed into lyrics. Beyond that I was unaware
. . . until now.

As to the melody, yes Peter - *traditional* is the correct word.
Now, I'm quite curious as to the roots of the tune. It's not uncommon
- especially in ages past - to "borrow" a folk melody to carry new words
[ala Francis Scott Key and The Star Spangled Banner]

The group I heard [The Fenians] even do a medley of *Queen of the
County Down* and *The Fighting 69th* which share a common traditional
melody. As these guys live in my part of The Ocean . . .
I'll ask for their *Irish* input.

They do another fine song [Willie McBride] that incorporates the refrain
from Streets of Laredo [words, not tune] "Beat the drum slowly, play the
pipes lowly . . . " wasn't likely created by an American cowboy.

Most likely came over from the British Isles, as did the vast majority of
tunes later to take on an American flavor. I love the lineage of The Music

Now . . . about those royalies - hmmmmm?

I hear you jj - Miguel stands tall . . . alongside the tallest.

Thank you, Sir Johnny . . . I've been too long absent from your leading.

Blessings,

Rez
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rez View Post
Hey Folkies,

Most likely came over from the British Isles, as did the vast majority of
tunes later to take on an American flavor. I love the lineage of The Music

Now . . . about those royalties - hmmmmm



Thank you, Sir Johnny . . . I've been too long absent from your leading.



Yes and it never fails to amaze me that an early national
anthem of the United States was an almost direct crib of the national anthem of the country they had previously separated from, even if the melody came to the lyrics composer via a German adaptation,see:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Country,_'Tis_of_Thee
Athough I am now a naturalised American citizen (as well as being British by birth and Canadian after my 5 year's residency) I still find it hard not to think of HRH The Queen whenever I hear My Country Tis Of The especially when as back in January the thing is being heavily mauled by the likes of Aretha Franklin!!
I wonder does the err umm royal Queen now get royalties as a latter day tea tax??
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:14 AM   #10
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

"Willie MacBride" is a song called No Man's Land written in the '70s by one Eric Bogle. Streets of Laredo predates it and is itself, allegedly, derived from some old British ballad.

It would be interesting to know if Moore (who's hoofing his new album at the moment) cribbed the melody from GL or some older source. I've never heard that air anywhere else but I guess it is a simple tell-a-story-melody.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

this from one of the many threads discussing the issue (just type in Derry using the search tool):


CHRISTY’S COMMENT

I was playing in Derry and staying with The Barrett Family. After my gig we were gathered in Chamberlain St having a banter and drinking tea when a bit of singing broke out. A lad, just home from The Blocks, sang these verses and subsequently wrote out the words for me. At the time the name Bobby Sands was not known to the world as it is today. The following night I played in Bellaghy where the same process took place when I stayed with Scullion. Later on he "sang" McIlhatton for me and told me it had been written by Bobby Sands with whom he had shared a cell while "On the Blanket". The name was becoming known to me.
He used the air of The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald from Gordon Lightfoot, an air which I suspect has earlier origins. My version of Bobby's song is shorter than the original.

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Old 04-29-2009, 08:30 AM   #12
The Rez
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Thanks 'youngstranger' for the Eric Bogle info. A fine song
beyond words for me. WWI was my Father's war - at 16yrs
of old - in 1916.

The Fenian's setup led me to think the song was of the era.
The lump in my throat is no less real either way I ponder.

jj . . . having purused and reviewed all the *Derry-Airs*
I've confused that I'm quite concluded about the whole
kaboodle and kit. Musta guzzled too much Ice'd Tea . . .

This Sunday, I'll put the question to The Oracle Hisself:
Van Morrison [whose daughter Shana is singing at that
self-same Newport Beach pub w/ John Stewart's bandsmen
in support] Shana's Daddy, as we all know,is the undisputalbe
Master of Clarity.

Sir Johnny - a careful reading of America's 19.21st Amendment
[giving women the right to drink] you will find where Congress
officially declared our unofficial National Anthem to be

[herald trumpets please]

The Hokey Pokey - countercockwise.

Good night, Edmund - my Derry-Air is a Wreck . . . and

Blessings,

Rez
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Old 05-01-2009, 03:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

OK - Now I'm really confused . . .

Finally found The Fenians CD jacket: *Back Home in Derry*
writer credits are listed as Bobby Sands and Christy Moore
- no year given

Only just met these guys, so gettin' back to me quickly ain't likely too
High Priority. Since they live nearby, I'll track 'em down for [long pause]
The Rest of the Story [blessings Paul Harvey]

Shana's Daddy won't be in Newport Beach tomorrow, but she'll ask him
Perhaps, he'll give an observation . . . or not [Strange Rivers, ya' know]

Gonna go see Robin Thicke - all grow'd up - w/ Daddy tomorrow night
. . . co-headliner w/ Jennifer Hudson

Who knows - with *Good Fortune* maybe get to 'hang' w/ Li'l Wayne
Compare Tattoos: His many & my none [no purple cough syrup, please]

Blessings,

Rez
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:57 AM   #14
jj
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rez View Post
OK - Now I'm really confused . . .

Finally found The Fenians CD jacket: *Back Home in Derry*
writer credits are listed as Bobby Sands and Christy Moore
- no year given

in a prior discussion this tidbit of wiki surfaced: "The tune and rhyming structure were borrowed in 1984 by Christy Moore for his song, "I Wish I Were Back Home in Derry," which is itself an adaptation of Bobby Sands's poem, "The Voyage."


...rez, "Derry-Air"...heh, great one
(Ebert/Roper are giving it 2 thumbs up)
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

I'm flying off to Ireland in a few days. I'm going to a couple of Christy Moore concerts in Galway while there - maybe I'll ask the man himself!

BTW - I wrote on Christy's guest book last year, on his website, about seeing a recent Gord concert - he replied to me asking for a review of the show - which I obliged!
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Old 05-02-2009, 01:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rez View Post

Gonna go see Robin Thicke - all grow'd up - w/ Daddy tomorrow night
. . . co-headliner w/ Jennifer Hudson
Rez
oh wow - my Lisa LOVES Robin.. - LOVES him...
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Old 05-02-2009, 01:13 PM   #17
RM
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Okay, let's see if I have this straight...

1) Bobby Sands wrote a poem

2) Christy Moore put it to music, using the melody from TWOTEF

3) Lightfoot believes he may have used the music from an old Irish folk song for TWOTEF.

Is that correct ?
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Old 05-02-2009, 02:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

My interpretation

1. Bobby Sands writes a poem

2. Christy Moore sets it to TWOTEF

3. Christy Moore believes the melody may come from a older source
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:14 PM   #19
The Rez
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

Well - It's not just us who know nothing conclusive . . . yet

http://www.mysongbook.de/msb/songs/b/backhome.html

Enjoy the Tumble . . .

Timeline . . . maybe:

Gord begat Bobby Sands *The Voyage* begat Christy Moore's
*Back Home in Derry* begat Gord who begat Gord - maybe

1976 - Edmund Fitzgerald

1984 - Back Home in Derry

19?? - The Voyage [while imprissoned betwee '76 - '81]

Some sources credit Bobby Sands and Christy Moore
. . . Others credit Bobby Sand and Gord
. . . . . .None [I've found] credit all three

So, as I understand it . . . I don't understand it . . . !

Maybe Robin will know . . . or Li'l Wayne . . . or Ticketmaster

Blessings,

Rez
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Back Home in Derry

[QUOTE=The Rez;151602]Well - It's not just us who know nothing conclusive . . . yet

http://www.mysongbook.de/msb/songs/b/backhome.html

Enjoy the Tumble . . .

Timeline . . . maybe:

Gord begat Bobby Sands *The Voyage* begat Christy Moore's
*Back Home in Derry* begat Gord who begat Gord - maybe

1976 - Edmund Fitzgerald

1984 - Back Home in Derry

19?? - The Voyage [while imprisoned betwee '76 - '81]

Some sources credit Bobby Sands and Christy Moore
. . . Others credit Bobby Sand and Gord
. . . . . .None [I've found] credit all three

So, as I understand it . . . I don't understand it . . . !

Maybe Robin will know . . . or Li'l Wayne . . . or Ticketmaster

Blessings,

Rez
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlene View Post
oh wow - my Lisa LOVES Robin.. - LOVES him...
ROBIN NEWS . . . ROBIN NEWS . . . ROBIN NEWS . . . ROBIN NEWS . . .ROBIN NEWS

Mosey on over to Small Talk . . .

[mosey . . . mosey . . . mosey . . . mosey . . .mosey . . . mosey . . . mosey . . .]
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