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Old 07-08-2006, 07:28 AM   #1
Jesse Joe
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Do you think the Gordon Lightfoot song,"For Lovin Me," is chauvinistic?


In the 60's, 'The Women's Right' movement, gaved him "heck" about that song. He told an interviewer, that he still performs it today on occasion. He said, "It's a good one, it depends on how you look at it"...


For Lovin' Me, ©1966 by Gordon Lightfoot

That's what you get for lovin' me
That's what you get for lovin' me
Everything you had is gone, as you can see
That's what you get for lovin' me

I ain't the kind to hang around
With any new love that I've found
'Cause movin is my stock 'n trade, I'm moving on
I won't think of you when I'm gone

So don't you shed a tear for me
'Cause I ain't the love you thought I'd be
I've got a hundred more like you, so don't be blue
I'll have a thousand 'fore I'm through

Now there you go you've cried again
Now there you go you've cried again
But then some day when your poor heart is on the mend
I just might pass this way again

That's what you get for lovin' me
That's what you get for lovin' me
Everything you had is gone, as you can see
That's what you get for lovin' me
That's what you get for lovin' me

[ July 11, 2006, 05:47: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]
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Old 07-08-2006, 07:29 AM   #2
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JJ,

It is what it is - a great song - let them say what they will, LOL.

Bill
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Old 07-08-2006, 07:33 AM   #3
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I agree BILLW. Are you at the pool today? It sure is warm down here...

[ July 08, 2006, 10:43: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]
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Old 07-08-2006, 07:45 AM   #4
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Nope - don't think it is.

A person stating who he is, what he believes, how he feels about love, intimacy, relationships and is up front about all of it is honest.
A most welcome trait.
From that honesty the other person can decide what relationship, if any will occur with full knowledge of who they're dealing with.


I wonder what would have been said had it been a woman singing those words....

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Old 07-08-2006, 08:11 AM   #5
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It is a chauvinistic song, though. He admits it in the songbook. Of course, it could be about the end of a bad relationship, and he's telling her to get the h*ll on.
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:22 AM   #6
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Could have only been answered, by the true Lightfoot fan that you are Charlene... Very Good.


This might be of some interest to someone who never saw an article I read on Macleans Magazine, May 1, 1978.

"Lightfoot can boast a sprawling mansion in Toronto's Rosedale, a Cadillac convertible, membership in the pricey Cambridge Club, two sailboats (the 35-foot Sundown and the 45-foot Golden Goose), even-much less welcome- the distinction of one of the highest settlements in Canadian history for his 1973 divorce ($150,000 cash and $4,500 a month for his ex-wife Brita)."

And from the book, 'If You Could Read His Mind'. After the verdict, his ex-wifes lawyer walking away, turns to Mr. Lightfoot and says; " That's what you get for lovin Me"...

[ July 08, 2006, 16:24: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:23 AM   #7
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Gord himself said it was chauvinistic. Nothing wrong with that. Everybody at one time or another has felt that way towards the opposite sex.
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse -Joe:
I agree BiLLW. Are you at the pool today? It sure is warm down here...
Today I'm covering a shift for someone on vacation. 12 hours in the data center/computer room. But I was in the pool last night and I intend to swim tonight and after church on Sunday. Thanks for asking !




Bill

[ July 08, 2006, 08:37: Message edited by: BILLW ]
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:34 AM   #9
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Hey Bill, that's my job too (more or less)! I've been in and out of that club for the past 17 years. How long have you been at it?

Oh, and as far as the song goes, I agree that it's more honest and upfront than anything else. It's also fun to listen to the coupling of "Did She Mention My Name", which has more of a regetful twist. I love the opposite emotions the two songs conjure up.
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by David (djb):
Hey Bill, that's my job too (more or less)! I've been in and out of that club for the past 17 years. How long have you been at it?
Small world. I started in "operations" in 1978 and worked my way up to the title of Chief (title has since been discontinued) in the IT dept. of the Federal Reserve Bank Of New York. When I took an early retirement in 1990 I had 40 people working for me. ER only lasted 3 years, LOL. After my one & only child was born I needed more cash flow so I went back to it after any number of different jobs. I've been in IT at Perdue Farms since 1998. So I guess the total time is about 20 years now - give or take, LOL.

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Old 07-08-2006, 09:26 AM   #11
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While Mr. Lightfoot himself may have thought his song chauvinistic I answered the question as asked. ("Do you think the Gordon Lightfoot song,"For Lovin Me," is chauvinistic?")

I did not and do not think it is. If chauvinism means being honest about how you will treat someone, good or bad, male or female, then perhaps it is.
I doubt it tho.
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Old 07-08-2006, 10:06 AM   #12
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Charlene,

I tend to disagree with your assumption that the lyrics imply that the person is being forthright about their intentions. I hear just the opposite. I always thought it was presented in an after-the-fact
fashion. Someone is "used" and then abandoned, with no remorse on the part of the one leaving.

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Old 07-08-2006, 10:34 AM   #13
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Bob Dylan once said, "For Lovin Me, I just wish I had written that song."

From the Gordon Lightfoot songbook:
For Lovin' Me.

In later years I realized that was the most chauvinistic song ever written, but never-the lest Peter Yarrow (of Peter, Paul & Mary) saw something in it, a tongue-in-cheek sort of approach to the situation.


Fortunately for me, it became a big hit. I am happy also to have been a part of their entourage for a short while.

It was their recording, along with Ian & Sylvia's help, that opened some doors in New York city that got me where I needed to be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >><<<<<<<<<<&l t;<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<


That's what the writer of this beautiful song's opinion is.


Now the question is, Do {YOU} think the song For Lovin' Me is chauvinistic? Every one is entitled to there opinion.


Come on guys, for Lightfoot's sake! :D

[ July 08, 2006, 10:51: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]
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Old 07-08-2006, 10:59 AM   #14
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Jesse-Joe,

Just in case my previous post was not clear.... Yes, I think it is Chauvinistic.

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Old 07-08-2006, 11:07 AM   #15
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That's good my man, that's your opinion, and it was clear.
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Old 07-08-2006, 11:24 AM   #16
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Jesse-Joe,

Yes, you were wrong. There was no argument brewing. I was simply stating that I hear the song as being in the past tense, rather than a warning to others that might appear in the future.

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Old 07-08-2006, 12:38 PM   #17
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Chauvinistic? You bet. But I would have thought it worthwhile just to be with him, say in the mid seventies…
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Old 07-08-2006, 12:38 PM   #18
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Chauvinistic? You bet. But I would have thought it worthwhile just to be with him, say in the mid seventies…
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Old 07-08-2006, 02:41 PM   #19
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Same thought as me Gloria. Gordon Lightfoot his music, and his life in general appeared more, way more interesting in the 70's.

Dont know what I would give, to have been with him on his drinking days. The partys that went on, every other night, as he told his good friend, Murray McLauchlan .

"Playing between 16,000 to 18,000 people at a time, and were selling out."

He is cool today, but what a cool cat in those days. As I have many a concert, and interviews, of him while him not being totaly sober.
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Old 07-08-2006, 02:41 PM   #20
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Same thought as me Gloria. Gordon Lightfoot his music, and his life in general appeared more, way more interesting in the 70's.

Dont know what I would give, to have been with him on his drinking days. The partys that went on, every other night, as he told his good friend, Murray McLauchlan .

"Playing between 16,000 to 18,000 people at a time, and were selling out."

He is cool today, but what a cool cat in those days. As I have many a concert, and interviews, of him while him not being totaly sober.
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Old 07-08-2006, 03:02 PM   #21
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Actually,I think the most chauvanistic song ever written had to be Bobby Sherman's,"Little Woman".

Most Chauv. line in the song;Quote:"Little Woman,leave your world behind and come into mine".

In other words,give up everything about herself and rest all of her hopes dreams,desires on a relationship with him.

He's the "man" after all. Ugh!

As for Gordon,his song is chavanistic,no doubt,but a lot of songwriters back then were.

In most songs,when a love and/or relationship ends(no matter what the reason) it's always "her" fault.

She'll always be the sorry one and he'll be perfectly fine and find another (or more) almost immedietly. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Glad those kind of lyrics are gone!
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Old 07-08-2006, 04:32 PM   #22
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Gordon Lightfoot's "Go MY Way", from, 'Summer Side Of Life.'


"Go my way, it's the only way to go."
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Old 07-08-2006, 04:32 PM   #23
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Gordon Lightfoot's "Go MY Way", from, 'Summer Side Of Life.'


"Go my way, it's the only way to go."
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Old 07-08-2006, 05:51 PM   #24
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Well I don't in the sense I understand the word. In fact I went scurrying for the dictionary to confirm my understanding of it. The dictionaries I looked at supported the view it is not chauvinistic.
The meaning that appears to be meant to apply are these from a few different online sources includes :

* Prejudiced belief in the superiority of one's own gender, group, or kind:

* activity indicative of belief in the superiority of men over women

* undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged

* an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex; also : behavior expressive of such an attitude

Just because Gord stated it was chauvinistic merely shows he is not truly aware of what chauvinism is. He's an entertainer not a linguist.
Nothing in it conveys a view of superiority of any group over another and not of men over women .

The song does not exactly display the nicest of sentiments but it conveys a sort of "I am not totally to blame here -you picked me" type sentiment...(Some would argue a cop-out and a rather petulant, self centred view), but even that would depend on whether said gal had been made aware at the outset of the singers failings.

But then there is a different way to look at it too which may be hinted at in this verse:
Quote:
So don't you shed a tear for me
B'cause I ain't the love you thought I'd be
I got a hundred more like you
So don't be blue
I'll have a thousand 'fore I'm through
There is a hint here that the singer is deliberately being an A grade mongrel to help make the healing easier for the girl after he is gone. It is his method of making parting easier because he feels it will be easier on her to part with someone who has shown himself as a self centred philandering egomaniac, than it would be if he parted with her feeling she had really lost something/someone of value…. A sort of “reverse psychology gift” to her if you will.. Just a thought…

When all said and done though it is not an autobiographical song - rather an observation of a slice of life & people and should not be confused as it being some sort of reflection of Gord's personal views or life...

PS If we are talking chauvinism I would say the lyrics from 14 Karat Gold is a better example...The whole tenure of the song treats the woman as a valuable possession - "She's more than money ,Shes 14 Karat Gold.." (Which might I add is not a very precious grade of gold!) lol...
But hey its just a song ..I recall singing "I am Woman" heartily...still do (on the quiet) if the truth be told...but anatomically/psychologically it may not be quite accurate...

*Stevo's entry in the overly verbose,tedious and lengthy post competition* which has a number of worthy and willing participants I note...
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:24 PM   #25
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Sidney Steve,

Congratulations ! You have won the contest. I could not decipher an answer from your post. So....

In your veiw is the song Chauvinistic or not ?

RMD
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