banner.gif (3613 Byte)

Corner.gif 1x1.gif Corner.gif
1x1.gif You are at: Home - Discussion Forum 1x1.gif
Corner.gif 1x1.gif Corner.gif
      
round_corner_upleft.gif (837 Byte) 1x1.gif (807 Byte) round_corner_upright.gif (837 Byte)

Go Back   Gordon Lightfoot Forums > Lightfoot Covers

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-08-2010, 02:50 PM   #51
RM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj View Post
here is a question for American's or non-Canadians: does Gord have any sort of accent that comes through in his singing, or even in interviews? other than "eh"
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj View Post
another question (rather than a fresh topic): what GL songs do you feel are most American in some way, i suppose geographically is most obvious...and i guess Black Day in July is obvious...i
None
RM is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 03:01 PM   #52
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

rm, you're brevity is exemplary
jj is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 03:06 PM   #53
charlene
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 15,116
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by RM View Post
No



None
agreed.
charlene is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 03:09 PM   #54
RM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj View Post
rm, you're brevity is exemplary
Thank you.
RM is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 03:11 PM   #55
charlene
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 15,116
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

I was out gardening and am now heading out to cut the grass that seems to have grown 12 inches in thelast week. And it's HOT out there! Looks like Turkey weekend will be lovely!
Hope Gord and the boys grab a leg or two and enjoy a Canadian like T-day away from home and loved ones on Monday in Wisconsin, U.S.A...
I'm having roast pork and applesauce.
charlene is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 03:25 PM   #56
redhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 157
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Let me try this another way.

If one lives in Arizona and has been hearing the song Carefree Highway on and off for almost 40 years, isn't it understandable how they may come to perceive the tune as an "American Classic"? Most people don't delve that deeply to uncover the nationality of who wrote a particular song.

I am not disputing that GL was a popular performer in Canada before breaking open in the U.S., or that his perspective is anything other than what it is. What I am saying, however, is that the statement " I never thought if it as an "American" anything" sounds disparaging, particularly since he does spend so much of his time touring here. I honestly believe no disrespect was intended by the person reviewing the song.

In fact, I would consider it a high compliment if people felt my work has touched them in the place where they live and consider my words to have made such an imprint, that they choose to welcome me into being a part of their culture, regardless of where I was from.

redhead
redhead is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 03:26 PM   #57
RM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj View Post
..or even find ourselves both inside on a glorious autumn day with Thanksgiving upon us...i am praying "dear Lord, thank you for the harvest, and for Gord" lol
Happy Thanksgiving.......will you be watching any football ?
RM is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 04:01 PM   #58
charlene
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 15,116
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

re: "American anything" - the "anything" referred to the genre of music..nothing disparaging meant at all to Gord, the song or America/American fans.

I don't consider it to be "American" regardless of what genre it is slotted in by a music critic.
And I'm sure no disrespect was meant by the critic nor did I think it was disrespectful or in any way an effort to steal a Canadian away.
It's nice that folks love songs so much they take them as their own like some people in Arizona might feel about Carefree Highway, possibly because they don't delve into details.
That does not make it so however.

If I say that Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land' is a classic Canadian Folk song it doesn't mean it is.
And if a music critic wrote that Gordon Lightfoot does justice to that "classic Canadian folk" song I imagine eyebrows would be raised. On both sides of the border..lol
It's not a Canadian folk song - even with Canadian locations replacing American ones in the lyrics.
It is a classic American folk song, beloved around the world that has been lyrically adapted by countries to make it more country-centric but it is definitely a classic American folk song.

I would assume that a music critic would know where a songwriter was from. The ordinary bloke out there might not feel the need to know details about a singer/songwriter of a song they like.
The issue being discussed isn't if a songwriter feels complimented or not when their music becomes part of local culture, wherever that may be..I'm sure they are and I'm sure Gordon is thrilled all these years later.

Football? There's football on??????
lol
It's baseball playoffs and hockey season!
lol
charlene is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 04:02 PM   #59
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by RM View Post
Happy Thanksgiving.......will you be watching any football ?
naw, just baseball (our national pastime ....umm, that was a joke)

yeah, lots of good games from the western provinces and then there are the Argonauts that will have many of our own 'yahoos' unglued to their sets based on recent play...in our 9 team league you often only need to win about 30% of your games to make it into post season

we opened the Leaf season last night (with a win, so the Stanley Cup parade organizing committee is already i full swing) so the weekend buzz will be more centered around our first hockey night in canada (saturday) regular season game

i imagine those Raptors guys are also back at it...it's sports "overlap" season

there's commonwealth games also...i think golf season is done...either way, with the MLB, CFL, NHL, NBA all going, i could well be a single man come Tuesday

thanks for the well wishes

ps) i'm jesting about the sports really...it will be 2 days of winter prep chores and then a full day of rugrats running about the place, hopefully not armed (for a change) with their testing units or their nintendo DS thingies...we've not allowed our kid to have either (and he's threatening to contact children's aid over this issue!)

Last edited by jj; 10-08-2010 at 06:05 PM.
jj is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 04:54 PM   #60
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

not to intentionally bring this thread back into Toby Keith land, but when a cover has been done by either an established, or even newcomer, there has typically been an interview clip or liner note saying what inspired them to take on the song...if one of the Toby promoters come across one please share it with us...it could be that his backup boys just like to jam to that signature groove and one day just threw a lyric sheet on his music stand...maybe there will be a live DVD version of the Bullets in the Gun tour and eventually a video of the performance (with toby's song intro) will appear on youtube
jj is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 05:12 PM   #61
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhead View Post
If one lives in Arizona and has been hearing the song Carefree Highway on and off for almost 40 years, isn't it understandable how they may come to perceive the tune as an "American Classic"?
cool, is that really a kind of anthem in that area? even though CH is more of a concept, i read that he jotted down what he saw on the road sign and shoved it in the glove for future use...maybe that would be a good one for some country beefcake to revive

i'm gonna reply to my own question:

cold hands from new york? that's a stereotypical title, imo, and many eastern and west coasters in Canada itself would argue that Cold Hands from Toronto would also be a deserved title...even most citizen of Ontario itself like to pick on toronto 'the bad', lol

somewhere usa? i love the vibe of this track and it does make me think USA

canary yellow canoe?
...no? i suppose not, maybe an anthem for the poor yellowknivers out there

Last edited by jj; 10-08-2010 at 06:02 PM.
jj is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 07:04 PM   #62
redhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 157
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Char:

Your point about the music critic and how he should have known better is well taken. He should have.

The reason I was taken aback when I read “I never thought of it as an American anything” was because it came across as somewhat of a “them vs. us”, and I never even thought about it that way. I take you at your word when you say it wasn’t meant to be disparaging. We all love him.

With regard to your point regarding “just because someone thinks a song is a part of the culture, that doesn’t necessarily make it so”, please refer to my initial post when I said that “so when someone ERRS in thinking that a song is an “American Classic”, try to remember…” (“errs” being the operative word).

I sited Carefree Highway as an example because I work with a lady who grew up in Phoenix and according to her, many people our age who live there do love the song. I imagine that that is because in addition to referencing “home” (concept notwithstanding), it probably serves as a reminder of what was going on in their lives and in the culture when they first heard it as young people.

While I can’t remember exactly where I read or heard it, I believe Gordon himself has said that it was when he secured a management contract in the States that things really began to “break open” or "happen" for him. If I’m wrong, I’ll be more than happy to stand corrected.

You asked about the Beatles, Stones, etc., and if I consider them to be “American” rockers. No, I don’t. Do I consider their songs to be part of “American” culture? Absolutely, I do. Which isn’t to say that they aren’t also a part of Canadian, Australian, British, etc. culture as well, as it isn’t mutually exclusive. In fact, a show here in the States called MAD MEN recently played the song “Satisfaction” a few weeks ago as a cue to the audience that 1965 in America was being portrayed, and no one is arguing that Mick Jagger is American (although I’m not 100% sure as to the actual status of his citizenship, lol).

Note to JJ: with regard to Springsteen, go ahead and claim him if you like and I promise not to scratch my head. I always thought he was overrated, lol.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful and intelligent responses to my posts.

redhead
redhead is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 07:41 PM   #63
charlene
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 15,116
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

I notede the 'errs' in your initial post but the follow thru didn't match up with that concept.
While I too have read that Gordon said when he got new mngmt. things began to happen for him. I think that may be in reference to his career in the States and other countries. He had become a huge star at home and the evolution of his career and dreams were then on track to conquer the rest of the world.
I saw that episode of MadMen...I find so much of that show a flashback to my own father and mother...my father was an "Ad Man." The clothes/ furniture, products, music bring it all back...sometimes not in a good way tho.
I've thought Springsteen over-rated as well.
I think I've made it clear about the 'anything'..the issue was two-fold - whether it's 'american' and whether it's 'rock'..the 'anything' referenced the 'rock' part of the issue.
Disparaging isn't in my DNA...thoughtful discussion/not dismissal is what I like..
I'd like to think that those who have come to know me over the 10 years I've been a moderator at this fine site know I don't operate that way.
So, here's to thoughtful people who I am thankful for on this Thanksgiving weekend..
cheers!

I
charlene is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 08:24 PM   #64
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

wow, pam...spewing insults across the ice, eh? sounds like the Can and USA girls olympics hockey final in Salt Lake, lol...seriously, i didnt' realize there was a generation of friction

thanks for the offer, redhead...we're in the minority (char included) it seems as i am not a fan either but i think he seems like a good man and can put on a show for those who like to soak up that sort of energy...i am keyed to check out the Darkness on the Edge of Town film cos that's album was the first i'd heard of him back in school and i played that LP very much and Racing in the Streets could be heard on repeat late at night...i am not into the Beatles either but talk about some great song writing, impressive, i'd like Paul's brain

i threw Bruce out there cos if i were an outsider i think a few artists come to mind when you think of certain nations...Gord is a guy who sang to our nation on national tv to bring in the new century and he's typically the chosen one who would appear on Parliament Hill for Canada Day, etc, etc...the same way i guess they had Toby leading July 4 festivities years ago with the RW+B anthem but i still think of the Boss (and a stars and stripes kerchief) when i think of the mighty USA

there's many international folks who lurk here...how's this for sign of the times and sign of the nation artists:

Canada - Lightfoot...it's not BNL is it (and songs about Kraft dinner)? lol
America - Springsteen....should it be Sheryl Crow?
UK - Paul McCartney? Mick? Phil Collins? Sporty Spice? lol
Sweden - ABBA? lol
Australia - Kylie? Olivia? Men at Work? ok, just how ignorant am i, mende?
Germany - Kraftwork? i have no clue really...where's Eva?
Ireland - Enya? The Coors gals?
Scotland - that hair makeover opera lady from that reality show? you know

glad the zany misperception has the all clear...i don't know if all saw that yet another new list came out with Sundown as chosen top 20 Canadian song/single of all time...i don't think it's spewing national imagery but i guess it's the infectious bass line, the classic lead solo, the harmonies, the Gord voice in it's prime not to mention the drone of that 'E gord chord voicing'

btw, 10 degree and getting colder is a tune that takes me south of the border

cheers
jj is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 09:05 PM   #65
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj View Post
the lead guy here should probably repeat the first solo lick 2x to give the next lick more impact, the way the studio cut is
well, looks like once he came to his senses and go note for note after all so i don't have to pull out my Sundown LP after all

feel free to enjoy this version (if you can get past the bouncing Asian chest)

http://aiting.com/MusicData/play/476849.html

hey, didn't sound too bad at all in the chorus when toby sang without the added harmony efforts...i guess they brought in the kick drum/snare to make sure the audience didn't nod off, lol

imo, the latter play out solo really died a slow death as did the song, and album...keith can chuckle all the way to the bank...well i can't think of anything else to draw out the thread and try hit the 100 reply milestone...cheers toby
jj is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 10:12 PM   #66
charlene
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 15,116
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote-originally posted by Pam:
If it was up to me to classify Sundown on American charts...country-rock. It's so awesome how his songs and fit or not quite fit. And he has songs which are jazzy (Make Way). spiritual, jivy, etc.

There are songs like CRT et al are classic Canadian folk songs and comparable to "This Land" to their prospective country of origin....but I wouldn't compare Sundown in the same way. Not a good analogy, Char. The reviewer was referring to Sundown. If Woody Guthrie wrote a song about Canada and for which greatly appealed to Canada...you may understand where we're coming from.

My mother's younger sisters (Gordon's age) once told me how when they'd go ice skating on the U. S. side of St. John's when they were in junior high and high school...they used to exchange insults and name calling, etc., with the Canadians across the border. The kind of attitude and distaste for Canada and Canadians remained throughout their lifetimes.

I once asked my mom (b. 1925) if she did this -i wanted to know because she always spoke with such love and pride for Canada and Canadians and couldn't imagine her doing this. She said it wasn't like that when she was that age...it changed by the next decade and generation for her younger siblings.

I know, historically where these types of extreme patriotic, nationalistic attitudes come from -how and when they arose and why. It remains to be part of that generation and that type of attitude has lessened in subsequent generations on both sides of the border...because the reason for this type of disrespect, distaste and even hatred no longer exists. Except for the hangers-on, most of the younger generation is now more like it was for my mother's generation. The generation that had the deepest ancestral roots in Canada.

I have no problem saying (in general) that I love Canada and i love Canadians and it's the truth and comes from the bottom of my heart.

Charlene, you wrote: "I don't consider it to be "American" regardless of what genre it is slotted in by a music critic."

It doesn't matter what you consider, it's not up to you and you're not an American and you're not able to be objective enough to even contemplate this. Sundown was released and charted here...it's an American classic here...created by an amazing Canadian. end quote.

Pam - who are you to determine what I should think or contemplate or if I am capable of even making that thought?
Who are you to judge and discount my thoughts with that disgusting 'it doesn't matter what you say" and "it's not up to you" sanctimonious attitude?
I never said it was up to me or my thoughts were the correct answer..
I stated an opinion with some reasoned explanations for it. You don't have to agree but you should keep your disparaging and dismissive comments out of it.
When did you become the judge and jury about anything? What a bunch of condescending, ignorant things to say.

I had an opinion just like Redhead, James and anyone else.
My opinion is as valid as anyone else's and Redhead had the grace and maturity to speak in respectful and reasoned words with no sense of personal putdowns or reverting to being dismissive and rude. Her misconception in what I said was cleared up without any stomach turning rudeness from her. She cleared up the "errs" issue for me with the same tactfulness and respect.

And then you take it upon yourself to determine whether my analogy is good or not. I think my point was understood by the others in this conversation.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "The generation that had the deepest ancestral roots in Canada."

Believe me, I know where you're coming from.
charlene is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 10:53 PM   #67
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by podunklander View Post
... it's not up to you and you're not an American and you're not able to be objective enough to even contemplate this
oh my, i must say i didnt' read all your post the first time

once someone said, paraphrasing, that a non-musician could not appreciate or relate to GL music in the same way a musician could...i recall it offending many and probably with good reason...i quietly think i understand what the intent of the opinion was...by the same token, i dont think musicians get to appreciate the utopia that a non-musical person does when hearing a Gord tune, i really do and am somewhat envious

so i thought about that earlier during a misunderstanding in this thread...i hesitated to similarly express that a non-Canadian may not even be able to contemplate the inner experiences of the mind and heart of a Canadian when a Lightfoot tune is spun over the airwaves or on a personal player...i'm pretty sure that would not go over well even if it may have some truth for a good portion of his works, especially the ones about the land and spirit...the ones about relationships and the human condition i feel are universal...anyhow, your tone and swagger may have changed my tune

btw, i thought the This Land is Your Land was a good analogy ( i am an ignorant one who always thought the one and only version was the one that had all the Canuck references til a few decades ago, lol....sorry about that, lol )....i enjoy your musical posts ...i don't follow your rationale or motives with the non-musical ones so much, this last one reminds of the troublesome one about thanksgivings and football comparisons...maybe it's a seasonal thing and it will pass....why not try come up with a new light hearted musical thread? i'm pretty spent as you can imagine, lol....cheers
jj is offline  
Old 10-08-2010, 11:03 PM   #68
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj View Post
rm, you're brevity is exemplary
your welcome... unfortunately, we appear unable to follow your lead...

...ok, i now see that both 'my' Twins and Reds are quite well positioned
jj is offline  
Old 10-09-2010, 08:39 PM   #69
jj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 5,273
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

seeing as there are many review threads coming in regarding GL's latest US tour and the fact that many of the 100+viewers of this thread (with perhaps some double counting in there due to repeat 'offenders' lol) i was wondering if this thread might be moved to the Covers forum, maybe where it belonged all along

also, i've re-read the last few post by moi, the moderator and podunkler and i can't make much sense of any of them anyhow..i partially jest but i'm mostly being truthful about that...i read redhead loud and clear and thanks...just a thought
jj is offline  
Old 10-09-2010, 08:53 PM   #70
RM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

As an Arizonan, I was wondering if perhaps another state could be used as an example in the discourse. How about Missouri ?
RM is offline  
Old 10-09-2010, 11:22 PM   #71
charlene
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 15,116
Default Re: cover of SUNDOWN by Toby Keith

originally posted by podunklander: Who are you to determine(d) how Gordon thinks and should think, etc.? Canadian mindset..look at what you wrote. So if he's in the US and eats American food here....(fill in the blank yourself ______________________).

And you also seem to know what every "ordinary bloke" thinks and doesn't think or should think and do. Or what the music critic thinks or doesn't think. You seem to know and have an opinion about what and how everyone else thinks...and condemn them, judge, etc., and I find that very insulting, etc., even if it's not directed towards me. I feel offended for Gordon when you're channeling his every thought and breath into his Canadianism and using that to tell EVERYONE that if we think any other way about him...any tinge of American spirit, etc.,...then we're wrong.

You wrote: "It's nice that folks love songs so much they take them as their own like some people in Arizona might feel about Carefree Highway, possibly because they don't delve into details." Charlene...you don't make it sound very nice!! So they love it and call it their own because they're ignorant of the details???? wtf...you think this isn't condescending???

LOTS of things you said were really very offensive not really to me personally...but I felt for others (such as 'some people in Arizona') and I responded as such. It's ok then for you to insult every "ordinary bloke"?? I didn't even think that it was any major faux pas that the reviewer didn't mention Gordon and it's like you assumed that he didn't know or something. Many people know Sundown is Gordon's song. That he didn't mention it in that short blurb is too bad, but maybe he had a reason. Like maybe he assumed that it's well enough known, that he didn't have to say. (though of course, he should have to please you!)

I can disagree with your opinions if I want to! AND I don't have to think they're as valid as "any one else's". How come you you can disagree with other's opinion and how they think, etc. (such as 'some people in Arizona'), the validity of what they say or don't, etc., and I can't yours? I can't even begin to count how many people you've deemed as ignorant, etc just in this thread alone. And what they all should think or not. But it's everyone from Arizona to the NY highway and well, all points in the USA. end quote.

podunklander deleted her last post.

Thread is moved and closed..
charlene is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keith Urban-Sundown at Toronto concert-'09 and Nfld.-2012 charlene General Discussion 5 03-27-2014 08:13 AM
Sundown-Toby Keith - LIVE charlene Lightfoot Covers 3 11-23-2010 09:27 PM
Cover of Sundown by Toby Keith and "it" podunklander Lightfoot Covers 3 10-15-2010 11:54 AM
Sundown album cover johnfowles General Discussion 14 06-11-2010 06:30 PM
Cover of Sundown jrmgarbage General Discussion 5 10-24-2009 09:59 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
downleft 1x1.gif (807 Byte) downright