banner.gif (3613 Byte)

Corner.gif 1x1.gif Corner.gif
1x1.gif You are at: Home - Discussion Forum 1x1.gif
Corner.gif 1x1.gif Corner.gif
      
round_corner_upleft.gif (837 Byte) 1x1.gif (807 Byte) round_corner_upright.gif (837 Byte)

Go Back   Gordon Lightfoot Forums > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-08-2006, 02:41 PM   #26
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Same thought as me Gloria. Gordon Lightfoot his music, and his life in general appeared more, way more interesting in the 70's.

Dont know what I would give, to have been with him on his drinking days. The partys that went on, every other night, as he told his good friend, Murray McLauchlan .

"Playing between 16,000 to 18,000 people at a time, and were selling out."

He is cool today, but what a cool cat in those days. As I have many a concert, and interviews, of him while him not being totaly sober.
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 02:41 PM   #27
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Same thought as me Gloria. Gordon Lightfoot his music, and his life in general appeared more, way more interesting in the 70's.

Dont know what I would give, to have been with him on his drinking days. The partys that went on, every other night, as he told his good friend, Murray McLauchlan .

"Playing between 16,000 to 18,000 people at a time, and were selling out."

He is cool today, but what a cool cat in those days. As I have many a concert, and interviews, of him while him not being totaly sober.
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 03:02 PM   #28
Borderstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix,Arizona -America
Posts: 4,425
Default

Actually,I think the most chauvanistic song ever written had to be Bobby Sherman's,"Little Woman".

Most Chauv. line in the song;Quote:"Little Woman,leave your world behind and come into mine".

In other words,give up everything about herself and rest all of her hopes dreams,desires on a relationship with him.

He's the "man" after all. Ugh!

As for Gordon,his song is chavanistic,no doubt,but a lot of songwriters back then were.

In most songs,when a love and/or relationship ends(no matter what the reason) it's always "her" fault.

She'll always be the sorry one and he'll be perfectly fine and find another (or more) almost immedietly. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Glad those kind of lyrics are gone!
__________________
"A knight of the road,going back to a place where he might get warm." - Borderstone
Borderstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 04:32 PM   #29
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Gordon Lightfoot's "Go MY Way", from, 'Summer Side Of Life.'


"Go my way, it's the only way to go."
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 04:32 PM   #30
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Gordon Lightfoot's "Go MY Way", from, 'Summer Side Of Life.'


"Go my way, it's the only way to go."
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 05:51 PM   #31
Sydney Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 298
Default

Well I don't in the sense I understand the word. In fact I went scurrying for the dictionary to confirm my understanding of it. The dictionaries I looked at supported the view it is not chauvinistic.
The meaning that appears to be meant to apply are these from a few different online sources includes :

* Prejudiced belief in the superiority of one's own gender, group, or kind:

* activity indicative of belief in the superiority of men over women

* undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged

* an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex; also : behavior expressive of such an attitude

Just because Gord stated it was chauvinistic merely shows he is not truly aware of what chauvinism is. He's an entertainer not a linguist.
Nothing in it conveys a view of superiority of any group over another and not of men over women .

The song does not exactly display the nicest of sentiments but it conveys a sort of "I am not totally to blame here -you picked me" type sentiment...(Some would argue a cop-out and a rather petulant, self centred view), but even that would depend on whether said gal had been made aware at the outset of the singers failings.

But then there is a different way to look at it too which may be hinted at in this verse:
Quote:
So don't you shed a tear for me
B'cause I ain't the love you thought I'd be
I got a hundred more like you
So don't be blue
I'll have a thousand 'fore I'm through
There is a hint here that the singer is deliberately being an A grade mongrel to help make the healing easier for the girl after he is gone. It is his method of making parting easier because he feels it will be easier on her to part with someone who has shown himself as a self centred philandering egomaniac, than it would be if he parted with her feeling she had really lost something/someone of value…. A sort of “reverse psychology gift” to her if you will.. Just a thought…

When all said and done though it is not an autobiographical song - rather an observation of a slice of life & people and should not be confused as it being some sort of reflection of Gord's personal views or life...

PS If we are talking chauvinism I would say the lyrics from 14 Karat Gold is a better example...The whole tenure of the song treats the woman as a valuable possession - "She's more than money ,Shes 14 Karat Gold.." (Which might I add is not a very precious grade of gold!) lol...
But hey its just a song ..I recall singing "I am Woman" heartily...still do (on the quiet) if the truth be told...but anatomically/psychologically it may not be quite accurate...

*Stevo's entry in the overly verbose,tedious and lengthy post competition* which has a number of worthy and willing participants I note...
__________________
Inventor and highly successful user of the " Reverse Polarity Chick Magnet" !
Female Repulsion Proven for 50 + years !
Sydney Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 08:24 PM   #32
RM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,965
Default

Sidney Steve,

Congratulations ! You have won the contest. I could not decipher an answer from your post. So....

In your veiw is the song Chauvinistic or not ?

RMD
RM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 08:33 PM   #33
Sydney Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 298
Default

Ummm.... no...

<*In the light of this wishes he entered in the slightly more prestigious category of "Most unintelligible post" * >
__________________
Inventor and highly successful user of the " Reverse Polarity Chick Magnet" !
Female Repulsion Proven for 50 + years !
Sydney Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 09:24 PM   #34
RM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,965
Default

Sidney Steve,

I meant no offense. Congratulations again !

RMD
RM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 02:13 AM   #35
rickv
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Default

Chauvinistic? Maybe, but the song isn't gender specific is it?
rickv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 05:27 AM   #36
mercedes
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 60
Default

Though I’m normally reluctant to participate in discussions concerning the intent behind lyrics I did not write, I do know this song well, if only having listened to it so often in younger days.

It has never come across to me as chauvinistic … but if one were to draw that conclusion and assume that the emotions were tied to attitudes from men TO women, I can appreciate the sentiment … i.e. “There you go, you cried again” … it is hard to imagine how that line (alone) sounds in the least bit convincing if it was directed toward a male audience.

I hasten to add by a female .... then again and these days …..

I will never think of the lyrics as anything other than “protected arrogance” … something one might say, write or think …. for a defence against a perceived personal attack that might never take place.

Therein lies my dislike of reading liner notes …. don’t break your silence, don’t betray my beliefs or understanding of what emotions played part in either your head whilst composing the song, or in mine when I felt compelled to purchase it .....

Just tell me if I ask you.

Mike

[ July 09, 2006, 11:18: Message edited by: Mike Dixon ]
mercedes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 06:10 AM   #37
geodeticman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado Rockies- Rampart Range
Posts: 263
Send a message via AIM to geodeticman
Default

Sydney Steve - LOL you are in no danger of winning the dubious award of "overly verbose, tedious, and lengthy" posts ! I believe I am at least a strong contender in that, a lot in this one, but less in general lately than historically !

For what its worth, despite my posts growing somewhat more succinct here and there.... I've had nothing but very kind notes sent regarding my longer posts.

Exceptions to that in open forum were rare; the few complaints I had while especially re-learning my typing reflected far worse of the sender with the thread participants, generally speaking. I enjoyed your "longer post" ! LOL your self-deprecating humour is not lost...

Another tack historically, for what its worth on the meaning of chauvinistic, I vaguely recalled from school the source being a man named Chauvin, whom I anticipated would have been a big womanizer when I looked it up. Quite the opposite..hoowee to wit

-------------------------------------------------
following verbatim from Wikipedia: [historical]
-------------------------------------------------
Nicolas Chauvin
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Nicolas Chauvin (possibly b. Rochefort, France, c. 1790) was a semi-mythical soldier and patriot who served in the First Army of the French Republic and subsequently in La Grande Armee of Napoleon Bonaparte. His name is the origin of the term chauvinism.
----------------------------------end Wikipedia

It [Wikipedia] goes on to explain that the term came to be used as a person of excessive nationalism or mis-placed patriotism. He also was a fervent, sycophantic follower who idolized Napolean.

So, the word's historical definition [denotation] was not one of disdain and user/abuser of women per se ,but a term later attributed to political excess and generally considered pejorative from the start, it would appear.

However, its current [connotation] seems to be highly variable gauging from all the above responses ! LOL Clearly though its usage has undergone spontaneous mutagenesis to reflect a false sense of male superiority as I read it.

My opinion JJ: Given that in so much modern pop music you can't even distinguish the lyrics enought to begin debating the merit, I applaud GL's lyrics being intelligable, if not ALWAYS admirable (who is ?). Yes, I think [the lyrics] are chauvinistic, not Gord.

I'd simply point out to augment the songbook comment by GL a mention he made of it in concert I attended in Denver, almost apologetically to the audience, while obviously amused by the over-examination of what could be an entirely fictitious scenario [i.e. are we to assume all songs are about Lightfoot when not explicity so ?] :

- paraphrasing "this was in my early days and is clearly chauvinistic in nature, but was simply [about] a temporary less-than-admirable fleeting thought that became a [good] song".

He added "I do NOT feel this way about women, perhaps I did a few times back then, but this song is NOT based on an experience of mine, but I s'pose could 'a been [self-deprecating grin and utterings while audience laughed].

[again, to best of my memory] he continued "BUT... I like to play it now with the contrasting more admirable take I s'pose of "Did She Mention My Name" following [explaining then how how a young man full of pi** and vinegar in the 1st song could change over time to the more gentlemanly approach toward woman in the 2nd song, and hence how he liked to tempor the excesses of the 1st with the 2nd in the medley].

So, while apparently not autobiographical from those comments alone at that concert, he still felt it of value to make clear his own evolution of growing respect for women over the years by forming the medley. But, he was not overly concerned about it..as in "its just a SONG" ...

I think as fans of his, we are typically accustomed to his songs being more than just enjoyable little ditties you can whistle, but rather genuine works of art and poetry. Once in awhile, however, it seems he is posessed of writing a song that is in fact the former.[why not?].. and fun to him he said, which is cool with me....

And Jessie-Joe - I think Gloria meant a slightly different way regarding mid-70'S GL than you did when you agreed somewhat. - Gloria: meant tastefully in the best of ways, and Jessie: all in good fun

So Sydney, I have relieved you I think of the burden in this thread anyway of the longest post distinction you had the good nature to mention ...but my goal was not that [to best you]at all...LOL. Rather, to communicate what I thought of the subject at hand...and in neat little paragraphs !

Rickv - good point, I don't recall it being gender specific.
geo Steve

[ July 09, 2006, 06:44: Message edited by: geodeticman ]
geodeticman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 06:17 AM   #38
geodeticman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado Rockies- Rampart Range
Posts: 263
Send a message via AIM to geodeticman
Default

Mike - you make a good point - your comment about it being "protected arrogance" best reflects what I heard and recall for the most part what Gord said in that concert.

GL also mentioned it was meant as a form of "false bravado or machismo" - and... that he meant it to be a story of the man trying to protect his own feelings, embarrassed by himself for really BEING attached to her and saying half-heartedly "I don't really care anyway, you shouldn't either.. [e.g. yeah that's it that's the ticket].." . I think you pegged it in that aspect at least.
- geo Steve
geodeticman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 06:30 AM   #39
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

GeoSteve, from what you have contributed to this post. From a sweet love in, "Did She Mention My Name," to the (chauvinistic or not} of ,"For Lovin Me." I think most of us would agree, that he sure can write them...A Poet Genius, no matter what is the subject of the song. He is the best...JJ.
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 06:30 AM   #40
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

GeoSteve, from what you have contributed to this post. From a sweet love in, "Did She Mention My Name," to the (chauvinistic or not} of ,"For Lovin Me." I think most of us would agree, that he sure can write them...A Poet Genius, no matter what is the subject of the song. He is the best...JJ.
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 07:42 AM   #41
geodeticman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado Rockies- Rampart Range
Posts: 263
Send a message via AIM to geodeticman
Default

JessieJoe - thanks you for the [compliment?]!

You sure are right there, friend - on GL being able to write them, no matter the take on any one given song at any one time.

He is IMHO a Poet Laureate in his own right, and a magical musician on top of the deal.

We so often say these things that seem best understood and shared by die-hard fans, that they functionally transcend opinion on our common love of the man's music, that they approach becoming truisms- generally accepted by fans as a "given" .

But then, if we agreed on everything, there would be nothing to write about in this forum, for which I am greatful.

I feel that in this world that all too often leans too much towards blase, and tends to engender a laissez-fairre mentality, that GL's music stands out as moments of grace, dignity, and beauty.

For what may be a minute - on the radio, or CD in the car, for an hour at home by the fire with your wife or S.O. at your side, or for that rare 2+ hours in concert we count the days to it seems, my wife and I get something increasingly special when we listen.

See, since I was a teenager, I originally idolized Gordon Lightfoot, wanted to be just like him, you know how teens think. Over time, as I grew up, I learned he was... human, with frailties, imperfections, challenges, troubles, bills to pay, kids to teach life too before we've got it figured out yet, much the same as we learn over time our parents are human too.

And yet there remains something special, as I said above...- those few minutes, maybe an hour or two, of that special feeling Gord gives us to transcend the mundane and often parochial day-to-day trappings "mister hoot-n-holler, gotta make a dollar"...

As Gord put even this best, perhaps unknowingly in its full extent - in the song "Is There Anyone Home", the followingif memory serves)- "don't be ashamed if you get a warmth in your heart... you got that feelin' in your soul" - That elusive but very real "Lightfoot feeling" .

Thanks - geo Steve
geodeticman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 08:06 AM   #42
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Very very well written, Geo Steve. Myself I idolized him, still do today, but its like you perfectly stated, he is human, with imperfections, challenges , bills to pay, etc. We are all humans, fighting the same battles.

It's John Mellencamp that said it best, in an interview in the 80's. He said "Ive been real poor, and now I have a little bit of money. But Money is not gone a solve your problems, Pays you phone bill. But whichever problems you have are with in your head and you heart, and money is not gone a solve that."

You write, he is {IHMO?} a Poet Laureat in his own right, A magical musician. The later one I had never heard before. Well put my friend, can I steal it from you? I will use it from now on. A Magical Musician... I love it...Jesse.
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 08:06 AM   #43
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Very very well written, Geo Steve. Myself I idolized him, still do today, but its like you perfectly stated, he is human, with imperfections, challenges , bills to pay, etc. We are all humans, fighting the same battles.

It's John Mellencamp that said it best, in an interview in the 80's. He said "Ive been real poor, and now I have a little bit of money. But Money is not gone a solve your problems, Pays you phone bill. But whichever problems you have are with in your head and you heart, and money is not gone a solve that."

You write, he is {IHMO?} a Poet Laureat in his own right, A magical musician. The later one I had never heard before. Well put my friend, can I steal it from you? I will use it from now on. A Magical Musician... I love it...Jesse.
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 01:49 PM   #44
RM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,965
Default

Jesse-Joe,

Your sentiments jarred this memory of an interview with John Hartford about the writing of "Gentle on My Mind". The interviewer notes that Hartford could retire and live comfortably with the proceeds from that song alone. To which Hartford replied, "Financially, yes. But not mentally or spiritually".

RMD
RM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 02:15 PM   #45
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Exactly RMD! Same as the Mellencamp interview, is what your telling me here right? Money pays the bills, but mentally or spiritualy as you say,All the money in the world ain't gone a solve those problems.

Money is a very big necessity, but there are people with lots of money that end up killing themselves. Mind you also many poor people end up the same way. Is this what you meant RMD?...Jesse.

[ July 10, 2006, 07:26: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 02:15 PM   #46
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Exactly RMD! Same as the Mellencamp interview, is what your telling me here right? Money pays the bills, but mentally or spiritualy as you say,All the money in the world ain't gone a solve those problems.

Money is a very big necessity, but there are people with lots of money that end up killing themselves. Mind you also many poor people end up the same way. Is this what you meant RMD?...Jesse.

[ July 10, 2006, 07:26: Message edited by: Jesse -Joe ]
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 03:42 PM   #47
Borderstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix,Arizona -America
Posts: 4,425
Default

The song "needs" to be gender specific?

Are you implying Gordon isn't talking about a woman??! I think it's pretty safe to say he is and yes it is a chauvanistic thing (whether you are a man or a woman) to imply that you'll overcome a break-up better than they will.

Not to mention telling that person,"I've got a 100 more like you".

Or..."Everything you had is gone,as you can see" ...
and,"Someday when your poor heart is on the mend,I just might pass this way again".

In other words,I'll continue to make you miserable?! It's usually guys that do things like that,women do to,but it's usually the male.

These are pretty pathetic things for anyone to say to another,after sharing a close relationship.
Talk about doing anything to feel superior!

[ July 09, 2006, 15:47: Message edited by: Borderstone ]
__________________
"A knight of the road,going back to a place where he might get warm." - Borderstone
Borderstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 03:42 PM   #48
RM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,965
Default

Jesse-Joe,

About people killing themselves ?...no.

Just kidding. I was just offering an affirmation of the thoughts that were expressed in the Mellencamp interview. The Hartford interview has just stayed in my memory. As the Beatles said "Can't Buy Me Love".

RMD
RM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 04:38 PM   #49
rickv
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Borderstone:
The song "needs" to be gender specific?
I mean the lyrics aren't gender specific. A female could sing the song and the meaning would remain the same.
rickv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 04:51 PM   #50
Jesse Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,886
Default

Borderstone, Gordon is definitly talking about a woman for sure. I was just answering a point that Geo Steve had said, about Lightfoot being like the rest of us, having bills to pay, etc . Go up a few posts and read what he's typed.

RMD, yes that's exactly what I was trying to find out from you. Bottom line is that famous Beatles song, "Can't Buy Me Love." The suicide thing , I took it a litle further. Sorry for that...Jesse.
Jesse Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Lovin Me ! 67 Jesse Joe General Discussion 15 03-23-2009 09:01 PM
For Lovin Me ! Jesse Joe General Discussion 8 04-18-2008 10:03 PM
For Lovin Me Jesse Joe General Discussion 1 02-01-2008 09:41 AM
For Lovin Me... Jesse Joe General Discussion 4 03-19-2007 07:49 AM
For Lovin' Me DMD3 General Discussion 20 05-14-2004 10:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
downleft 1x1.gif (807 Byte) downright