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Old 05-14-2000, 05:44 AM   #1
Wingdrops
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In a previous thread, Florian noted the lyric change in IYCRMM. We all know that Gord no long sings "in the hot sickly South" in Cotton Jenny. I would change that lyric to "in the heart of the South."

I've never been too fond of "high steppin' strutters who land in the gutters" either. That lyric has virtually no connection whatever to the rest of the song. I might change it to "in the penthouse or gutters you are sure to find others who could use one too." Something like that.

Are there any Gord lyrics you would change?

2Much2Lose
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Old 05-14-2000, 05:44 AM   #2
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In a previous thread, Florian noted the lyric change in IYCRMM. We all know that Gord no long sings "in the hot sickly South" in Cotton Jenny. I would change that lyric to "in the heart of the South."

I've never been too fond of "high steppin' strutters who land in the gutters" either. That lyric has virtually no connection whatever to the rest of the song. I might change it to "in the penthouse or gutters you are sure to find others who could use one too." Something like that.

Are there any Gord lyrics you would change?

2Much2Lose
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Old 05-14-2000, 09:27 AM   #3
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2Much2Lose:

I've never been too fond of "high steppin' strutters who land in the gutters" either. That lyric has virtually no connection whatever to the rest of the song. I might change it to "in the penthouse or gutters you are sure to find others who could use one too." Something like that.

Hey 2much,
I disagree...the line "high steppin' strutters who land in the gutters..." is very significant to the song. The song speaks of everyone needing a rainy day person in their life even these folks who are too proud or think they are too good to admit it. If you replace it with your line...you've removed the imagery that Gord is known for. His songs paint vivid pictures with words that describe the realities of life and love...how can you even suggest that we tamper with perfection?

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Old 05-14-2000, 09:42 AM   #4
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HI 2Much2Lose,

I wouldn't change them at all.

I like them the way they were meant to be, even though I can understand that Gordon Lightfoot himself made a few adjustments or omits some of them (Alberta Bound comes to my mind, 'and if you got the money, you can get yourself a honey, with a written guarantee to make you smile..')
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Old 05-14-2000, 11:55 PM   #5
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I like them the way they were written and first performed. It's an insight to the man that Gord was and what made him into the man he is. We all have those similarities that age slams into our faces later on! Crikey, if I were the person I was in my early twenties I probably wouldn't be here today! Gosh if you only knew how funny that is!
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Old 05-14-2000, 11:55 PM   #6
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I like them the way they were written and first performed. It's an insight to the man that Gord was and what made him into the man he is. We all have those similarities that age slams into our faces later on! Crikey, if I were the person I was in my early twenties I probably wouldn't be here today! Gosh if you only knew how funny that is!
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Old 05-15-2000, 07:22 AM   #7
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I love the "high steppin strutter that land in the gutter". What a great visual! Seeing a pompous jerk high on his/her own self inflated ego fall lower than those he thought he was above cracks me up every time I think of it. I just wish Gord would work a song around "lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut"! LOL
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Old 05-15-2000, 07:22 AM   #8
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I love the "high steppin strutter that land in the gutter". What a great visual! Seeing a pompous jerk high on his/her own self inflated ego fall lower than those he thought he was above cracks me up every time I think of it. I just wish Gord would work a song around "lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut"! LOL
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Old 05-23-2000, 03:31 AM   #9
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[QUOTE]Are there any Gord lyrics you would change?

Yes. In the Canadian Railrod Trilogy.

"Build the mines, the mills, and the factories, for the good of us all."

Suggestion; "Brought the culture of Europe and gave it root to a freer way of life."

For the good of us all eh? Maybe that played in the sixties, but many have trouble with that now.

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Old 05-23-2000, 03:31 AM   #10
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[QUOTE]Are there any Gord lyrics you would change?

Yes. In the Canadian Railrod Trilogy.

"Build the mines, the mills, and the factories, for the good of us all."

Suggestion; "Brought the culture of Europe and gave it root to a freer way of life."

For the good of us all eh? Maybe that played in the sixties, but many have trouble with that now.

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Old 05-23-2000, 02:26 PM   #11
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Not to burst any bubbles....but...I don't apreciate anyone telling me how to do my job, why would we even concider the thought of changing someone elses work?
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Old 05-23-2000, 02:26 PM   #12
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Not to burst any bubbles....but...I don't apreciate anyone telling me how to do my job, why would we even concider the thought of changing someone elses work?
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Old 05-23-2000, 07:06 PM   #13
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Bob, great comments, but it is the nature of our world today. If it doesn't fit into MY way of life or MY LIFESTYLE, or the way I do things, it should be changed BECAUSE I KNOW BEST. It is a sorry, politically correct, way to think.

I will take Gordon Lightfoot just the way he is, no excuses.

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Old 05-23-2000, 07:49 PM   #14
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quote:Suggestion; "Brought the culture of Europe and gave it root to a freer way of life."

If you bring in the culture of Europe you have to include something about how our European ancestors completely annihilated the culture, land and spirit of the people native to this great continent!

My vote is not to change a word...Although my wife has a song book for the piano that has 'plowboys' in place of 'navies' for Canadian Railroad Trilogy.

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Old 05-24-2000, 01:11 AM   #15
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Bob, Wes,

I'm with you guys on this one. Changing Gordon's lyrics is like walking up to a Van Gogh with a Magic Marker Pen and saying, "No that's not right, this should go like this and like that", while they mark the thing up.
Changing "navies" to "plowboys" reminds me of the time I was at the video store and picked-up "Twelve Monkeys" and this lady and her husband said, "Oh, that's a tough movie to follow." I rented it anyway, and all the way thru it, I'm thinking, "What's so hard to follow here?" Please no offense, but it seems that people just want things too ease these days. If you don't know what a word means, go get a dictionary.

Changing lines like, "High steppin' strutters who land in the gutter", and "...for the good of us all" is to me, an affront. While we're at it, let's change the words to "Oh, Canada" and "The Star Spangled Banner."

Rob
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Old 05-24-2000, 01:11 AM   #16
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Bob, Wes,

I'm with you guys on this one. Changing Gordon's lyrics is like walking up to a Van Gogh with a Magic Marker Pen and saying, "No that's not right, this should go like this and like that", while they mark the thing up.
Changing "navies" to "plowboys" reminds me of the time I was at the video store and picked-up "Twelve Monkeys" and this lady and her husband said, "Oh, that's a tough movie to follow." I rented it anyway, and all the way thru it, I'm thinking, "What's so hard to follow here?" Please no offense, but it seems that people just want things too ease these days. If you don't know what a word means, go get a dictionary.

Changing lines like, "High steppin' strutters who land in the gutter", and "...for the good of us all" is to me, an affront. While we're at it, let's change the words to "Oh, Canada" and "The Star Spangled Banner."

Rob
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Old 05-24-2000, 07:23 PM   #17
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With all due respect to Wes, Rob and Bob

Talking about lyrics one might change is absolutely nothing like defacing the Mona Lisa. If one modifies the lyrics of a song, the original still exists. Besides, we are not modifying anything. We are talking about lyrics we think could have been better.

For the record (no pun intended), I would be quite distraught if the original lyric would ever vanish completely, or be censored, or be repressed due to political correctness. What we are talking about is whether we like (or dislike) certain lines of the poetry. This is a perfectly valid exercise.

You are free to dislike this topic. You are free to feel that not a word should be changed. You are feel to free that Gord is a deity who only creates perfection. As much as I admire and love Gord's music, I do not ascribe perfection to him or his work.

It is inherently the nature of performance art that each performance is different. Particularly with live performances, one cannot hear the same song twice. Two different performers cannot perform the same song the same either.

If Gord can change the way he sings his songs, we certainly can talk about doing the same. It's no more disrespectful than fantasizing about who would play Gord in a movie. I think that the debate is healthy and that to stifle debate is Orwellian thought-control. Let's not limit this bulletin board to (politically) correct views of Gord's work.

Returning to my original point about "high steppin' strutters," although I like the imagery and the phrase, I believe it is somewhat out of place in the song RDP. The balance of the song addresses a personalized second-person listener (e.g., "always seem to know when you're feeling blue"). Out of nowhere, there's a reference to these "strutter" characters (third person) who "sometimes need one too." What about the youth in Ghetto black condemned to life upon the street? Does he need a RDP? What about the drunkard in the tavern? The "strutter" lyric bears more resemblance to these DonQ characters than it does to the balance of the RDP lyric. For that reason, I feel it is out of place and I would change it. Put it in a different song. Or perhaps create a whole new verse concerning the types of people who need RDPs.

A minor flaw in a gem, IMHO. Or not, IYHO.




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Old 05-24-2000, 07:23 PM   #18
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With all due respect to Wes, Rob and Bob

Talking about lyrics one might change is absolutely nothing like defacing the Mona Lisa. If one modifies the lyrics of a song, the original still exists. Besides, we are not modifying anything. We are talking about lyrics we think could have been better.

For the record (no pun intended), I would be quite distraught if the original lyric would ever vanish completely, or be censored, or be repressed due to political correctness. What we are talking about is whether we like (or dislike) certain lines of the poetry. This is a perfectly valid exercise.

You are free to dislike this topic. You are free to feel that not a word should be changed. You are feel to free that Gord is a deity who only creates perfection. As much as I admire and love Gord's music, I do not ascribe perfection to him or his work.

It is inherently the nature of performance art that each performance is different. Particularly with live performances, one cannot hear the same song twice. Two different performers cannot perform the same song the same either.

If Gord can change the way he sings his songs, we certainly can talk about doing the same. It's no more disrespectful than fantasizing about who would play Gord in a movie. I think that the debate is healthy and that to stifle debate is Orwellian thought-control. Let's not limit this bulletin board to (politically) correct views of Gord's work.

Returning to my original point about "high steppin' strutters," although I like the imagery and the phrase, I believe it is somewhat out of place in the song RDP. The balance of the song addresses a personalized second-person listener (e.g., "always seem to know when you're feeling blue"). Out of nowhere, there's a reference to these "strutter" characters (third person) who "sometimes need one too." What about the youth in Ghetto black condemned to life upon the street? Does he need a RDP? What about the drunkard in the tavern? The "strutter" lyric bears more resemblance to these DonQ characters than it does to the balance of the RDP lyric. For that reason, I feel it is out of place and I would change it. Put it in a different song. Or perhaps create a whole new verse concerning the types of people who need RDPs.

A minor flaw in a gem, IMHO. Or not, IYHO.




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Old 05-24-2000, 08:23 PM   #19
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Hello everyone. Excellent comments from all.

I think sometimes we read too much into the "boys" lyrics.

I remember one time after he sang "Rainy Day People" he made a comment about one of the lines. ".....RDP don't keep love inside. They just pass it on." After he repeated this line after singing it, GL said "whatever that means." So I wonder maybe sometimes he might just throw something in, if it sounds good, though it might not have a specific meaning.

Wes
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Old 05-24-2000, 10:53 PM   #20
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2much2lose,

From an academic standpoint, I now see clearly the Third Person references you are refering to. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. The problem I have is that over the years I have performed the songs, I have never had anyone raise that flag before. So in that regard, I take my hat of to you Sir. There has always been that something in the back of my mind that I have never been able to put my finger on, as not being just right and you have pointed that out and I thank you. There are a number of songs that Gordon has done this to, Apology is one but the line evades me at the moment.

As it stands tho, I shall continue to perform his works as is, and let the Emperor of Austria tell Mozart that he has too many notes, if you get my drift?

Thanks Again,

Rob


[This message has been edited by Rob Wells (edited May 24, 2000).]
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Old 05-24-2000, 10:53 PM   #21
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2much2lose,

From an academic standpoint, I now see clearly the Third Person references you are refering to. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. The problem I have is that over the years I have performed the songs, I have never had anyone raise that flag before. So in that regard, I take my hat of to you Sir. There has always been that something in the back of my mind that I have never been able to put my finger on, as not being just right and you have pointed that out and I thank you. There are a number of songs that Gordon has done this to, Apology is one but the line evades me at the moment.

As it stands tho, I shall continue to perform his works as is, and let the Emperor of Austria tell Mozart that he has too many notes, if you get my drift?

Thanks Again,

Rob


[This message has been edited by Rob Wells (edited May 24, 2000).]
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Old 05-26-2000, 09:53 AM   #22
char
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Hey Rob,
The lyrics to "Oh Canada" have been changed!
The "standing on guard for thee" was deemed to be to militaristic (SP?) so several of them were replaced! Plus some verses are sung in French now.
You know us Canadians - we don't want to offend anyone and we want everyone to be happy!!!
what a pain in tha arse!
;-O
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Old 05-26-2000, 01:36 PM   #23
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2much2lose,

I may not speak for Wes and Rob, but, I'm not trying to limit the msg board to only political correctness. As others choose to change lyrics if they could, I, personally, choose to leave them as they were written by the artist. If Gordon wanted my opinion on his lyrics, he would have called me on the "hot line" while his pen was in hand.

I, myself, do not feel Gordon is perfect either, he may be the first to admit to that....thats why I like him. There is only one perfect one.....and I'm not quite ready to meet him just yet.

Finally, I don't think Gordon purposely changed the way he sings. I think his age and past abuses are catching up to him. Nevertheless, no one can sing Lightfoot like Lightfoot !!!

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Old 05-26-2000, 01:36 PM   #24
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2much2lose,

I may not speak for Wes and Rob, but, I'm not trying to limit the msg board to only political correctness. As others choose to change lyrics if they could, I, personally, choose to leave them as they were written by the artist. If Gordon wanted my opinion on his lyrics, he would have called me on the "hot line" while his pen was in hand.

I, myself, do not feel Gordon is perfect either, he may be the first to admit to that....thats why I like him. There is only one perfect one.....and I'm not quite ready to meet him just yet.

Finally, I don't think Gordon purposely changed the way he sings. I think his age and past abuses are catching up to him. Nevertheless, no one can sing Lightfoot like Lightfoot !!!

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The house you live in will never fall down, if you pity the stranger that stands at your door.....GL
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Old 05-26-2000, 06:06 PM   #25
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Well my feelings on this subject are already on the board so I won't bore you with them again. If anyone wants to know my thoughts on this there on the post "A little disappointed". I will say I agree with Florian " I wouldn't change them at all".

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What a wonderful place this world would be"
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[This message has been edited by Paul J B (edited May 26, 2000).]
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