New information about condition

[santarosalinda]

I found this board while desperately looking for info about Gord's condition, so I am a newcomer. I am feeling absolutely awful about what has happened to him (whatever it is). Like many of you, I have been to many lots of concerts over the years and have blindly assumed there would always be another one. I feel especially bad that I did not attend his August concert in Jackson, CA (just a few hundred miles away) because it didn't work with my schedule.

I must say that the tone and content of some the postings, with all the bickering back and forth,is really stupid. It seems that if all that energy was put into positive thoughts for Gord, he'd be out of ICU and upgraded to something better in no time.

[Auburn Annie]

Santarosalinda is probably talking about something called intercessory prayer. There have been a number of studies done on this over the years. See abstract below for an example:
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Effects of remote, retroactive intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients with bloodstream infection: randomised controlled trial.

Leibovici L.

Department of Medicine, Beilinson Campus, Rabin Medical Center, Petah-Tiqva 49100, Israel. leibovic@post.tau.ac.il

OBJECTIVE: To determine whether remote, retroactive intercessory prayer, said for a group of patients with a bloodstream infection, has an effect on outcomes. DESIGN: Double blind, parallel group, randomised controlled trial of a retroactive intervention. SETTING: University hospital. SUBJECTS: All 3393 adult patients whose bloodstream infection was detected at the hospital in 1990-6. INTERVENTION: In July 2000 patients were randomised to a control group and an intervention group. A remote, retroactive intercessory prayer was said for the well being and full recovery of the intervention group. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Mortality in hospital, length of stay in hospital, and duration of fever. RESULTS: Mortality was 28.1% (475/1691) in the intervention group and 30.2% (514/1702) in the control group (P for difference=0.4). Length of stay in hospital and duration of fever were significantly shorter in the intervention group than in the control group (P=0.01 and P=0.04, respectively). CONCLUSION: Remote, retroactive intercessory prayer said for a group is associated with a shorter stay in hospital and shorter duration of fever in patients with a bloodstream infection and should be considered for use in clinical practice.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 11751349 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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In general, the thought on intercessory prayer/healing, remote or otherwise, is along the lines of the Scottish verdict: not proven. Interesting, occasionally positive, more often inconclusive or showing no positive effect. In other words, there's no proof it works but doesn't hurt. And it has the salutary effect for the person praying of doing *something* for the ill person.

[ColoradoSue]

I ran across an article on the web that is an eye-opener (& a toe-tapper!)when it comes to distant healing...check it out:
Distant Healing

Theoretically, distant healing can help anyone, so many wonder if it wouldn't potentially be useful for cerebral palsy. Elisabeth Targ is a physician who has conducted research on distance healing. Though born into a Jewish family, she never went to temple, and was raised to believe only in the "super rational."3
Nonetheless, her physicist father was intrigued by such phenomena as clairvoyance and telepathy. Beginning in the 1960's he conducted research on parapsychology at the Stanford Research Institute in Menlo Park, California. During college, and then medical school at Stanford University, Elisabeth worked as her father's researcher. Today Dr. Targ is a practicing psychiatrist, and the Director of the Complementary Medicine Research Institute (CMRI) at California Pacific Medical Center in San Francisco, and one of the country's leading researchers in the area of distant healing (DH).

"Distant healing is any purely mental effort undertaken by one person with the intention of improving the physical or emotional well-being of another," explains Dr. Targ. "I knew that various forms of distant healing were widely practiced around the world, including prayer and psychic healing, and I knew that numerous, well-controlled trials had demonstrated the mental effects of DH on humans, animals, and other biological systems. However, not enough research had been conducted to definitively determine whether such activities had a clinical impact independent of psychological effects. I wanted to further the research in that area."

Even if DH has measurable effects upon patients, they are unlikely to dwell on the mechanics of the phenomenon. Reverend Laurie Garrett is the Chaplain and Clinical Pastoral Education Supervisor at California Pacific Medical Center, and one of Dr. Targ's colleagues. "It is not surprising to anyone who practices prayer that distant healing makes a difference", says Reverend Garrett. "Prayer is a use of our consciousness that helps us create our reality."

The first DH study that Dr. Targ and her colleagues conducted was on AIDS patients and took place in San Francisco between July 1995 and January 1996. This was before the introduction of "triple-drug therapy" (simultaneous use of a protease inhibitor and at least two antiretroviral drugs), which has been shown to have a significant effect on mortality. This double blind pilot study included 10 control subjects and 10 subjects treated by self-identified healers representing many different healing and spiritual traditions. The subjects and healers never met. The study suggested that there were both medical and psychological benefits of distant healing, with 4 of the 10 control subjects dying during this period, while no one in the treated group died.

Since the sample size was small, and those who died were older, the study was repeated between July 1996 and January 1997, using 20 control subjects and 20 treated subjects. At this point, triple-drug therapy for AIDS patients had been widely introduced in San Francisco, and mortality was less likely.

Different outcomes were evaluated, including:

Improved disease progression (fewer and less severe AIDS-defining diseases and improved CD4+ levels)
Decreased medical utilization
Improved psychological well-being.
DH practitioners were recruited via professional healingassociations and schools of healing, and each had at least five years' ongoing experience as a healer. Practitioners included healers from Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Native American, and shamanic traditions, as well as graduates of secular schools of bioenergetic and meditative healing.
During the six-month study period, the DH group experienced significantly fewer outpatient doctor visits, fewer hospitalizations and days of hospitalization, fewer AIDS-defining diseases, and a significantly lower illness severity level.4

Dr. Targ believed that DH was responsible for the improved health outcomes, as the study adjusted for most other variables, such as age, sex, ethnicity, and years HIV positive.

Fifty-six out of 131 controlled studies dealing with the effects of psychic healing on humans or biological systems have found significant effect, according to Dr. Targ. http://www.healing-arts.org/children/cp/cpprayer.htm


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"Mathematics is well & good but, Nature keeps dragging us around by the nose."
Albert Einstein



[This message has been edited by ColoradoSue (edited October 29, 2002).]

[Rebecca]

Dear Watchman,


The term "aneurysm" had not been used
in official communications to describe Gord's condition. Someone -- I can't remember who, and it's really not important anyway -- wrote that Gord had suffered an aneurysm. Char mentioned that she hadn't read in official communications that Gord's condition had been described as such. You disagreed, arguing in effect that an aortic weakness in and of itself constituted an aneurysm. Cathy and Char both disagreed with you, stating essentially that an aneurysm is a ballooning of the aortic wall,not merely a weakening of the wall. You defended your position. I offered evidence that backed up Cathy's and Char's positions.


I'm not meaning to attack you personally, as you are probably a fine human being in real life, but you seem far more able to offer criticism than to take any of the same. You keep writing that it is time to move on, but you don't really move on. You respond, then I or someone else responds to you, then you respond back, and again say that it is time to move on. You don't have any real authority here; your only power to cause things to move on is to not respond yourself. If you respond, then once again say that it is time to move on, someone will almost surely respond.


You make the call.


Rebecca


P.S. This all reminds me of a certain character from "Cheers," the old sitcom.


quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:
Rebecca,

I'm not sure why you feel threatened so easily and have to resort to the subtle put-downs in your posts. No need to feel threatened and act nasty just because you think someone posted some incorrect info., although you are only trying to disprove one thing that I wrote and leaving the many other facts alone.

I happen to be in a unique position around here. My writing is gone over with a fine toothed comb for the slightest inaccuracy. I used the word "aneurysm" and was immediately repsonded to with a statement that it was never verified. It even went as far as naming all the words that were used by Barry Harvey or the press, which were all essentially saying the same thing. Statements like that always have a reason behind them. If you don't think so, than why would they have been written in the first place? That statement about verification goes back to the original flames that unless Barry Harvey uses the word to describe Gord's condition, we cannot. So I explained why I used that word and got another reply that my reasoning for using it was incorrect. So, I was told that I used the wrong word and then I was told that my reasoning for using that word was wrong. Amazing.

You guys are spending too much time trying to find fault with others that you back people into corners and make them back up every little word that they use. When they respond you try to label them as troublemakers. It's a game that I am growing very tired of.

I keep writing that it is time to move on as it really doesn't matter anyway. But you keep it coming.

Nice ploy...apologizing to the moderator for your hostility in hopes that it goes unnoticed. Fortunately, I am in a position that I do not have to apologize for anything that I have written here as I have not made my remarks personal. I only use facts when I am questioned about why I used a specific word in my posts.

For the record, I am responding to your post, Rebecca, and have discussed your personal remarks about your comment that you question my ability to read thoroughly and and NOT about the the exact meaning of the word aneurysm.


[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited October 29, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Rebecca (edited October 29, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Rebecca (edited October 29, 2002).]

Is anyone here familiar with Reiki? It is a form of remote healing, in a sense. It is many other and much other, but it primarily about directing healing energies. I had not thought of that before, but I will contact a few Reiki people I know on the net.

As for belief. I believe that what is most important is that people believe in a higher power, whatever form that higher power may take. There could not possibly be one true religion or belief. Unless someone here has been there and come back and knows for a fact that there is just one God who has a strong preference as to how people worship him or her? There have been thousands of belief systems since human beings evolved self awareness. I believe they are all valid.



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What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

Why don't we let the moderators decide that? That is THEIR job after all.

violet

quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:
Just a suggestion, before somebody throws a hissy fit, perhaps a new thread should be started in the "small talk" section for this. Before you know it, you will be looking down the barrels of about 15 guns. We've been there and done that.



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What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

For starters, call me violet. Hey horse is not acceptable. You have a nasty habit of provocatating discussions you then claim you don't want to have. If you don't want to go there why did you bring it up when you knew excatly, by your own admission in your post, what might happen? Yeah, go ahead and go back and edit that now before anyone sees it. If you want a discussion to end, why do you keep responding to it? If you don't want to start a discussion, why do you? You cannot bring up provocative issues and make absolute proclimations and not expect or allow response. YOU cannot have it both ways. But then, I believe I'm not the first person to say that on this thread.

violet

quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:

Originally posted by violet Blue Horse:
Why don't we let the moderators decide that? That is THEIR job after all.

violet

Hey horse, they already have decided that. Just trying to help. In case you forgot, we were instructed of this in the past. Remember? We were told that religion, Christianity, chanting, pagans, atheists etc. etc. and any instructions or beliefs about all of that will not be tolerated on the "Gordon Lightfoot" message board. I didn't make the rules horse. I didn't tell you not to talk about this, just that a new topic that you all want to talk about might be left undisturbed if someone started it in the "small talk" board. Just trying to help but have it your way.

I would look forward to a chance to learn about other beliefs, but prefer to do so where we will not get into trouble. That's all. No more, no less. Perhaps a 126 yr. old rabbit can teach me something...

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited October 29, 2002).]

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

And for the record; a Hare is not a Rabbit. Two totally seperate creatures. Rabbits are born hairless, blind and in dens. Hares are born with a full coat of fur, their eyes wide open, on the grass. Hares have longer ears, longer rear legs and different diets, native habitates and mating habits. If you're gonna try and make a joke, get it right.

violet


[/b][/QUOTE]
No more, no less. Perhaps a 126 yr. old rabbit can teach me something...

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited October 29, 2002).][/B][/QUOTE]



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What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

[BILLW]

I've been trying to catch up on this thread but it's mighty hard reading sometimes. This looks like a thread that might just go "POOF" soon, LOL. Do you prepare rabbits and hares with the same seasonings? Might they go nicely in the "gift basket" (sorry, wrong thread!) Be careful everybody that's trying to give the Watcher (oops, The Watchman) a stroke. If he gets sick or hospitalized then we won't be able to discuss him anymore or try to tar and feather him AND then what are we gonna discuss? BTW, for anyone that's so uptight that they didn't notice, I'm kidding, OK? Now please resume hostilities!
Bill

[Rebecca]

I would say that I understood Violet's posts
very clearly, but if I said that, I'd probably be accused of making inferences about The Watchman's intelligence.

Rebecca

quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:
Is that what you call biting a hunter in the a**? Your post doesn't even make sense.

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited October 29, 2002).]

I'm sorry. You're right. The only two people my "Hare" post made sense to would be you and I. For those who don't know, which is the rest of you, my email addy is WildMountainHare@aol.com. If you then go to the trouble to look up my AOL profile you will see under "Interests and Hobbies" the phrase "biting hunters in the ass". Though why any of you would bother to look up my AOL profile, I don't know. I created that addy a while back to honor the native Hares that live here on the mountain. They're amazing creatures, and most assuredly are not rabbits.

There. Now I believe we are ALL caught up.

quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:
Is that what you call biting a hunter in the a**? Your post doesn't even make sense.

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited October 29, 2002).]



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What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

[Janice]

I don't know, Bill. I'm thinking that hares might be a bit tougher than rabbits, so they might require drowning in marinade - but I could be wrong

I always get a chuckle out of your humor!


quote:Originally posted by BILLW:
I've been trying to catch up on this thread but it's mighty hard reading sometimes. This looks like a thread that might just go "POOF" soon, LOL. Do you prepare rabbits and hares with the same seasonings? Might they go nicely in the "gift basket" (sorry, wrong thread!) Be careful everybody that's trying to give the Watcher (oops, The Watchman) a stroke. If he gets sick or hospitalized then we won't be able to discuss him anymore or try to tar and feather him AND then what are we gonna discuss? BTW, for anyone that's so uptight that they didn't notice, I'm kidding, OK? Now please resume hostilities!
Bill

[Janice]

Ooops, sorry Violet, I typed my response to Bill's kidding before I read your last post - I hope my comment wasn't misconstrued in any way. You'd think I would have learned by now to read everything before responding to anything

quote:Originally posted by Janice:
I don't know, Bill. I'm thinking that hares might be a bit tougher than rabbits, so they might require drowning in marinade - but I could be wrong

I always get a chuckle out of your humor!

It's quite all right. First you'd have to find a Hare, then you'd have to catch it to marinade it. The odds on either are not good.

As for marindade, I would suggest a nice sage rub myself.


quote:Originally posted by Janice:
Ooops, sorry Violet, I typed my response to Bill's kidding before I read your last post - I hope my comment wasn't misconstrued in any way. You'd think I would have learned by now to read everything before responding to anything





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What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

It's quite all right. First you'd have to find a Hare, then you'd have to catch it to marinade it. The odds on either are not good.

As for marindade, I would suggest a nice sage rub myself.


quote:Originally posted by Janice:
Ooops, sorry Violet, I typed my response to Bill's kidding before I read your last post - I hope my comment wasn't misconstrued in any way. You'd think I would have learned by now to read everything before responding to anything





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What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

No where does it say we can't trade recipes!

Hare is actually best if it's cooked slowly at a low heat. It is a little gamey in taste, and herbs like sage and thyme are great compliments to it's flavor. I wouldn't recommend marinade as you're liable to drown the delicate flavor of the meat with it. If you're truly worried about it being tough, which some of us are, cooking for the first half hour or so in a foil pouch helps.

It is best served with green veggies; nothing too strong in flavor, and a nice herbed bread is always a good choice as a compliment.

Hey, you think I've learned nothing living on this mountain? Squirrel Roadkill Stew anyone?


quote:Originally posted by Rebecca:
We occasionally digress. . . so sue us.






------------------
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

No where does it say we can't trade recipes!

Hare is actually best if it's cooked slowly at a low heat. It is a little gamey in taste, and herbs like sage and thyme are great compliments to it's flavor. I wouldn't recommend marinade as you're liable to drown the delicate flavor of the meat with it. If you're truly worried about it being tough, which some of us are, cooking for the first half hour or so in a foil pouch helps.

It is best served with green veggies; nothing too strong in flavor, and a nice herbed bread is always a good choice as a compliment.

Hey, you think I've learned nothing living on this mountain? Squirrel Roadkill Stew anyone?


quote:Originally posted by Rebecca:
We occasionally digress. . . so sue us.






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What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

--R.W. Emerson

The best song to inspire me to overcome a sicknesss or injury has always been "You Just Gotta'Be" which has the best line "lot of people sayin'... what a price you been payin'." Play it next time you're under the weather and watch how quickly you recover. The power of music to heal! 14-Karat Gold right before exercising always makes for a good workout.