Harmony and voice changes

[bobbyk57]

I was reading, with interest, the comments on Gord's changing voice. I think it's analogous to a good bottle of wine- it just get's better with age. I've been listening to Gordon since I was 8 years old. I liked him then and I like him equally as well now. In fact, I'd say Harmony is one of my favorite albums by Gord (Shadows comes in a close second.) The quality of both the lyrics and melodies on the Harmony album is absolutely top-knotch. I hope Gord is able to continue to bless us with music for a long time to come.

[The Rez]

Amen to that, Bobby

I, too, was dissapointed when I heard Painter Passing Thru. But, then I heard him do quite a few tunes from that album live, shortly after release. It was great, as always.

Did anyone else notice trouble in the level w/ the CD, and an odd mix?

Live was really "live," however - strong as ever then.

The Rez



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It was a Beautiful Rainbow
A Beautiful Time in my Life
A Thing to Share
A Time to Care
To Be Alive

[Joe M]

Hi BobbyK,

Gotta respectfully disagree with you on the fine wine analogy. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or ear) I just don't honestly see how anyone could actually believe that Gord's voice has gotten better with time. It's thin and nasally where it once was deep and rich.

Some guys , like Sinatra and Ray Charles's voices do mature and get better with age. I saw both Ray Charles and GL here in Portland City Hall a few years ago. Ray Charles's voice was amazing while frankly Lightfoot's was a little disappointing.

No disrespect and it does not take away from his greatness, just telling the truth as I hear it.

Joe

[TheWatchman]

quote:Originally posted by Joe M:

No disrespect and it does not take away from his greatness, just telling the truth as I hear it.

Joe

Very true.

Gord's earlier voice was amazing. Imagine someone who has never heard Lightfoot sing and you played them something from his earlier days. Undoubtedly they would say the voice is great. They would hear a deep, strong and smooth voice, unlike anything they've ever heard and unlikely to ever hear again.

Now instead of playing something from his earlier days, you played them something from Harmony. Can you honestly say that the thin, elderly voice you hear on Harmony is one of the all-time greats? You still hear that unmistakable Lightfoot sound, but only a glimpse of what it once was.

Again, "No disrespect and it does not take away from his greatness, just telling the truth as I hear it".

Some of his lifestyle choices are responsible for the thin voice we hear today. There is no way around that. Lifetime smokers have to deal with that gravely sound from they get from smoking. When you listen to Lightfoot speak, you can tell he has been a heavy smoker. You can also tell it when he sings.

Some people go unaffected but unfortunately Lightfoot is not one of them...

[TheWatchman]

I've not heard him sing recently (since 2001) but there is no way a voice can recover like that. On the song Harmony, his voice is very strong, relatively speaking, not even close to what it was on say, Summetime Dream though. Throughout the rest of the CD you clearly hear him straining to hit notes as his voice fades into that nasal ringing sound. If you listen to "Make No Mistake About It", one needs to listen no further then the first few lines.

Please don't misunderstand me, he still has one hell of a voice and I love to hear him sing live and I love Harmony. I have no problem with admitting that his voice that made him famous is long gone. It's part of life and the choices me make.

I think it's only natural to compare his voice. Everybody has done it, let's not kid ourselves. There is no way you can listen to Shadows and then Salute and not hear a very noticable change in his voice. There's nothing wrong with talking about it. It's better to talk about and understand it instead of comparing his voice to some vintage wine that only get's better with age. I'm sorry guys, smoking takes it's toll on the ol' vocal chords and there's no way around it.

And for the record, his voice on Painter is much, much stronger than it is on Harmony. Since Salute came out, his voice has continued to get thinner and will continue to do so. Perhaps he can stop it from getting much worse if he quits smoking. Maybe he has, I have no idea.

[TheWatchman]

I agree with that in regards to someone getting back into shape vocally. But we're talking about a voice that has been affected by cigarettes. The damage done to one's voice from 40+ years of smoking is altogether different.

[LSH]

Yeah, his voice is very different. I can't deny that I always loved that deep, rich, smooth voice of his younger self, but I also like the character in his voice now. There seems to be a vulnerability and honesty in it...it has character. I've always been more about his words anyway, which is why I never kicked up a fuss about albums like EOM (which I love, but got a lot of people going because it was a huge departure). For me, he's a poet first.
I just take it as it comes, always interested in hearing what the man has to say in his music, old voice, new voice? Don't care, just keep telling me stories Lightfoot.
That's my take, for what it's worth.

I'm with you there, LSH.

[Rob1956]

Reading how Gord refered to his voice as he was recovering from the operations, he kept saying "it's in there, I just have to find it". I'm sure the changes in his voice don't bother him as much as it seems to bother some fans. He just does what he can, the best he can, and if we want to go along for the ride, that's fine. I can't help comparing the situation with Dylan. During some of his last few albums, it's really hard to understand him, but you know it is him and again, you go along for the ride. Compare his voice on the CD "Time out of mind" to, say, his voice on "Lay, Lady, Lay"...sounds like another person, right?
I too will be interested in hearing fan reports on how Gord sounds during his upcoming concerts this spring, compared to his voice on Harmony, which, as we all know were just supposed to be demos that were never meant to see the light of day.

[Auburn Annie]

quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:
I agree with that in regards to someone getting back into shape vocally. But we're talking about a voice that has been affected by cigarettes. The damage done to one's voice from 40+ years of smoking is altogether different.

But not entirely irreversible. As I recounted somewhere in these files once before, we had a telephone operator at the hospital who was a lifelong heavy smoker with a rough, raspy voice. I saw her about 2 years after she retired and would never have recognized her by her voice. She went from Selma Diamond to Betty Bacall - a whole 'nuther sound. The reason? She quit smoking. The difference was astonishing. So, yes, vocal quality can improve dramatically when the irritants are removed.

[TheWatchman]

What I am saying is that getting a voice back into shape from not singing is entirely different then trying to fix a voice that has been affected by smoking for 4+ decades. A lot of damage is done in 40 years. Now add on singing for that same amount of time. And let's face it, Gord throughout the years has strained his voice to hit certain notes. This all takes a toll. Look at Rod Stewart and what he did to his voice because of all the years of straining to hit notes out of his range. Gord's was not nearly as obvious but nonetheless he strained his voice back then and does even moreso today. From Salute to Harmony the straining to hit certain notes is undeniable. This is not good for someone's voice.

It's irrelevant to compare a phone operators voice at a hospital to a professional singer such as Lightfoot.

More times than not, when smoking has affected someone's voice so dramatically as is the case with Lightfoot, the damage is done. We are not just talking about a deep gravely voice, we are talking about a thin, gravely voice. The gravely sound maybe can go away but the thin sound that we hear is evidence of permanent damage to his vocal chords. Some people when they smoke their voice get's deeper, but once too much damage has been done, the voice get's higher, such as the case with Lightfoot.

Here's an example. Mark Knopfler smoked for many, many years. If you follow Mark's career since the conception of Dire Straits until present day, it is the opposite of Lightfoot. During the early DS years, Mark's voice was somewhat deep, but more of an adolescent sound to it. I'm talking about back in the 70's. As he got older, his voice got even deeper. This is normal for most people but being that he smoked, he had a bit of a rasp mixed in with his voice naturally getting deeper. Since he quit smoking in 2000, his voice smoothed out a lot and is still is very deep. The exact opposite of Gordon. Maybe a lot has to do with the way they sing and how that can affect the voice too.

When SDYS came out, Gord's voice was phenominal. He started out with a deep, velvetly smooth voice that was one of the best ever, hands down. Throughout the years of abuse to that voice, it took it's toll and that's what we hear today.

Again, I enjoy Gord's voice as it is today more then any other musician out there. It's Lightfoot and he could make the phonebook sound interesting if he sang it. I agree with Laurel that he is a poet and the words are equally as important if not more than the sound of his voice. After all, it's the images that he's given us that keeps us listening to 20 year old LP's and enjoying them as much as when we first listened to them.

My opinion is that Gord when in his prime had a better voice then anyone and was in a league all to himself. To me his voice up until Salute was perfect in every way possible. There is no voice that I have ever heard that I like more. Okay, life happens and he lost some of it. What is left of that perfect voice is still far better then most others. All one has to do is attend one of his concerts. He sounds far better live then on any CD. I've seen him about 12 times in concert since WFY came out and always left wanting more.

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited March 06, 2005).]

[Joe M]

This has been a really interesting topic has it not? Watchman I totally agree with your take and who could possibly disagree with Laurel's? I'm 48 and I can remember the first time I heard IYCRMM on the radio, it was so differenr from anything else being played and so great, I was hooked.
Also, being a fanatical Irish American I first heard Early Morning Rain sung by Liam Clancy, if you've never heard his rendition you should seek it out. Totally different style from GL's but man is it pretty.And after finding out on the liner notes that it was the same guy who sang this great song I was hearing on the radio, I ran out and bought SDYS.

As I've stated, I believe Lightfoot is the greatest songwriter and singer ever. The only one that even (in my mind) comes close as a singer is James Taylor, and though he's written some great songs he is not in Lightfoot's class when it comes to being a prolific songwriter.

Hey, the guys getting old but so are we all. Maybe it's that fact that has me nostalgic for Lightfoot's younger voice.

Joe

[jj]

i agree with ALL the above, i'm on the fence...great posts

then again, i think Gord's current voice (i call it 'richer' actually, then again it definitly was thin and dry live in Hamilton for say, Triangle, River of Light, etc) cuts over the band much better than it did when i saw him early 80's...and i think it would cut over harmonies more nicely also, if there were any

i never had much of a voice to try and get back but if/when i quit for good i hope to atleast get my wind back...then again, there seems to be no major shortage this morning

[Patti]

I love how he sounds on the Harmony album. Robert Browning was a great poet, but could he sing? Gordon Lightfoot is one of the best singers ever.

[LSH]

Hearing you in FM Al. Perfect.

[The Rez]

Somewhere in the late 70's my pardner and I, & friends, were on the bill in the lounge at Harrah's Tahoe. Sinatra was in the main room.

Since we were so VIP (that, and a $50 bribe to the Head Goon)Jim & I, w/ our ladies, were escorted to a stage side table. I watched Sinatra w/ one elbow on the stage. (Very worth the bribe.)

He did this piece of business on Send In The Clowns that was truly amazing. He had a scotch in one hand and a smoke in the other.

Just before he sang the lyric, "Isn't it rich - isn't it queer" he took a slug, drew a deep drag, inhaled. He then finished the phrase, "loosing my timing this late in my career."

Now, all the song was sung from a solitary stool w/ spot shining straight down. At the close of "career" he took another slug of scotch . . . and THEN exhaled - the smoke spiraling upward in the light of the spot.

Here's the point of all this. There are many folks who sing and sing well (like 'em or don't.) Then there was Sinatra and there was Brother Ray and there, thankfully, is Gord. These three are masters at a thing called "phrasing." And not usual or expected phrasing as w/ most others.

So, even as Sinatra's tone diminished w/ the
age, his phrasing and timing were always sharp - Sharp!

I figure Gord's tone has indeed taken it's blows from all those yrs of smoke. That, age and who knows what else takes it's toll.

But, like Sinatra & Brother Ray, Gord's phrasing is intact, unique and Sharp! I also figure that'll remain w/ him right on thru.

A little bit like Don Quixote, I suspicion. But still the shining knight.

So, come on April; come on Cerritos; come on Alan; come on Todd. We're gonna go see Lightfoot!

And ain't that just alright.

The Rez


------------------
It was a Beautiful Rainbow
A Beautiful Time in my Life
A Thing to Share
A Time to Care
To Be Alive

Rez, damn, I like the way you talk!

Yep. There is a lot to be said for experience and knowledge. Someone who's been signing fifty or sixty years is always going to have something over a twenty year old voice that hasn't learned how to phrase or breath or feel out a song yet.

I bought the John Stewart CD Havana a while back. The voice that recorded California Bloodlines is pretty much gone now. But in it's place is an even better songwriter who gets better with every passing year at crafting lyrics, and a singer who's phrasing and feel for a song gets more intuitive with every CD.

I'd rather continue to hear them both write and record for years to come, and I'll pick them everytime over the Josh Grobans of the world.

[The Rez]

Havana - John Stewart - Just got my copy somewhat recently, too. John, like Gord, seldom includes someone else's material.

I never though anyone could meet Brother Ray's version of Lucky Ol' Sun. Not even Frankie Laine's earlier take - great, too. But when John sings it, he sounds like a cross between the JS of yesteryear and my Uncle Chill.

And that's very good company indeed, by the way. You're right, there's a seasoning now that stands tall beside the younger man of old. Same-same Gord

I stand in awe of them each and both - now, as ever before. Vital didn't end with the onset of the 80s.

The Rez

------------------
It was a Beautiful Rainbow
A Beautiful Time in my Life
A Thing to Share
A Time to Care
To Be Alive

Mr. Lightfoot could come onstage and FART and I'd applaud. He has earned it.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/st...xwellmusic.htm

[joveski]

he farted into the microphone on an interview in 1970, so it's already been done!

[TheWatchman]

quote:Originally posted by joveski:
he farted into the microphone on an interview in 1970, so it's already been done!

mrbadhairday, start clapping. That interview was called "Lightfoot Craps". Here's the link. http://www.mjq.net/interviews/lightfoot.htm

Read with caution though. I posted this a couple of years ago and several forum members were destroyed that Lightfoot could do such a thing.

WARNING: If you worship Gordon Lightfoot or think he is some God or something, don't read it. I don't want to be blamed again for shattering someone's dreams.

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited March 09, 2005).]

"he farted into the microphone on an interview in 1970, so it's already been done!"
-----------------

Gordon was there; the mike was there. It was an epiphany. He probably couldn't resist the urge.

"I posted this a couple of years ago and several forum members were destroyed that Lightfoot could do such a thing."
-------------------------

Oh dear! Get a hold of yourselves, people! Gordon's human!

[bjb]

quote:"I posted this a couple of years ago and several forum members were destroyed that Lightfoot could do such a thing."

He's a guy, right? They should get a sense of humor, too

[This message has been edited by bjb (edited March 09, 2005).]