W Va. Miners in deep trouble

[Iron]

I sure hope for the best,but this situation is very different from Quecreek.When there is an explosion in a mine,or a flash fire,which is what I would speculate happened,considering what they are reporting,the O2 is depleted by the fi
re.I sure hope they were not in this area....
Some may wonder,being that this was not a "cave in" and there are no "obstructions" blocking the rescuers,why is it taking them so long.Could'nt they just go in like firemen do with O2 tanks and breathing apperatus,even if the "air" is bad???
No,you can't do that.Mines are strange places to be.You might be in an area that is OK,and 20 or 50 feet futher,ther may be a pocket of methane.This is a sad scenario,but very possible: If they sent rescuers in with breathing apperatus,and they spotted some of the miners up ahead,maybe only 25 feet,or more,and say these miners were in the location of the original fire,there may be methane present again in that area,one of the survivors hears the rescuers approaching,rolls over,exposing a smoldering ember underneath himself....boom..there he goes,any other survivors,and anyone attempting the rescue...
Many have wondered about this,That is the reason,basically.
This is sad,lets hope for the best..

[Iron]

Things just don't add up here? No cave in's or obstructions,I just cannot figure out why they went deeper and barracaded off.If they had the time and emerg. ox. supply units,why did'nt they just head out??

[Borderstone]

Another piece to this tragedy was reported on my local news here. It seems a lot of the people who are supposed to be the national mine inspectors,have inspsected about "0" to just only 3 mines or so in the last few years!

Worse,these highly paid "professionals" were seen on video partying together in a casino. One inspector was shown to be gambling at the same time there was an important meeting being held elsewhere!

I don't get why they'd go deeper into the mine either,but I'm sure as time goes on,it (and all) will be cleared up.

[Auburn Annie]

Brian - they went deeper because that's what they are trained to do in this circumstance. Miners are trained to evacuate the mine along designated escape routes. If an escape is not possible, miners are trained to erect a barricade (curtains) to isolate themselves from a contaminated mine atmosphere while they await rescue, which they apparently did.
It's early yet but experts on the scene think powerful lightning strikes in the area may have set off a dust/methane gas explosion - hence not a lot of rock or other debris, but it can suck the oxygen out of the immediate location. Also "the toxic gas produced at such an event may be disbursed around the mine in a manner which is quite different to the normal ventilation flow. Where flows have reversed, secondary ventilation may draw from exhaust and deliver contaminated air to areas expected to have clean air. It is possible that contaminated air may be delivered to an end unrelated to the work place where the explosion occurred." In other words, the bad air may be pushed towards the entrance, leaving good air deeper down the mine.

[Iron]

Aburn Annie,
You most evidently have some knowledge in the mining arena.That is pretty neat,how are You affiliated ??
I understand what You mentioned about the barracade,it's just the "if escape is not possible" part that "puzzles" me? Perhaps they found an area of good air and decided to wait for help,and I realize the 20-20 hindsight,but If I had the 1 hour o2 reserve,and no obstructions,and considering the +or- 2 mile depth,,,I think I would have chosen to evacuate.I was not there,just an armchair evaluation..
At first,I thought the "lightning" thing was a bit absurd,but perhaps it is not..Considering the energy involved,and where it is dispersed,one cannot rule it out as an ignition source....

Borderstone,
"Seems" is the key word in the local media You mentioned.Don't take me wrong here,I understand You are just passing along the info that You heard,and it does not suprise me that it may be true in some places.I happen to personelly know of a Federal mine inspector,he used to be my next door neighboor,that inspected underground mines in the "South".Now mind you,this was about 15 years ago,and I cannot say if things have changed,but the reason "He" moved back up north was,and this He told me,"When You go into those mines,they make it pretty clear that if You find any violations in this mine,You will not be coming out!!!"Is this true or not?? I've known this person for a long time,since I was about 6 years old.Never the bullshuttin type.
Now here is the flip side:
I 've been in the coal mining industry for 25+ years.{above ground}I have nothing but the utmost respect for MSHA and State regulatory authorities.(DEP).I cannot speak for anyone but myself,and miners in our area,but I must say that contrary to the report that You heard from Your local "news", it is quite the opposite around here.Though contrary to some of the stuff you might be hearing on the "news",It does not make a bit of difference about union or nonunion when it comes to safety in the mining industry.
I do not know where the report may have originated from,and I for sure do not know if it may be fact or not from the area of origon,but I can say that in our area of mining,DEP and MSHA do an outstanding job.They are there for us,the miners,union or nonunion..

[Molly]

Brian, I agree. I would be one running fool. I think I could run 2.5 miles uphill in about 15 min. in this situation. But also, the closer you get to the mouth of the tunnel the better air I would imagine.

[Auburn Annie]

Brian what little I know of mining (present-day) is from googling on mine evacuation training, mining safety etc. My paternal grandfather worked the mines near Clarks Summit PA as a child (pre child labor laws) when HIS father died young (40ish) and gramp was about 9. He was the 'man' of the family, helping to support his widowed mother and two younger siblings. He got out of it as soon as he could and eventually made a living in a shoe factory, hand piecing soles to uppers.

Sometimes the force of the explosion pushes the methane gas between them and the mouth of the mine so that heading for the opening would run them smack into the gas. You can't run full-tilt in pitch blackness into unknown air quality, and it was 13,000 feet from where they were to the mine portal. As reported in the New York Times, "They could not have known it, but there was breathable air inside the mine, possibly just 2,000 feet away.

Cut off from communications with the outside, surrounded by thick smoke and deep darkness, they might have believed a fire was raging ahead of them, or that the mine roof was in danger of collapsing. They might have become disoriented by carbon monoxide poisoning."

So, if they had some light, more oxygen, and most critically, knowledge that the way out was clear and safe, yes, some or all might have made it. The problem is they had no way of knowing what was there (or not).