A little disappointed

[Jim]

I have been reading these posts about the lyrics changes, and I must say I'm disappointed. You might as well delete the songs of the CD and pretend he never wrote them. I don't meen to come of like I'm attacking anyone's opinion, but changing song lyrics is just another form of censorship. I understand some of Gord's songs don't sit well with some people ,just don't listen to them. One of the other post's in those topics hit the nail on the head. Those songs express what Gordon was going through, or feeling at the time. Who are any of us to tell someone there feelings are wrong. Now if Gordon feels he was wrong and wants to change some lyrics god bless him, but thats his decision alone. I know these posts won't change his lyrics, but something about the whole discusion of it doesn't it right. Just had to throw that out there.

------------------
"If people could look into each other's eyes
What a wonderful place this world would be"
GL

[Paul J B]

I have been reading these posts about the lyrics changes, and I must say I'm disappointed. You might as well delete the songs of the CD and pretend he never wrote them. I don't meen to come of like I'm attacking anyone's opinion, but changing song lyrics is just another form of censorship. I understand some of Gord's songs don't sit well with some people ,just don't listen to them. One of the other post's in those topics hit the nail on the head. Those songs express what Gordon was going through, or feeling at the time. Who are any of us to tell someone there feelings are wrong. Now if Gordon feels he was wrong and wants to change some lyrics god bless him, but thats his decision alone. I know these posts won't change his lyrics, but something about the whole discusion of it doesn't it right. Just had to throw that out there.

------------------
"If people could look into each other's eyes
What a wonderful place this world would be"
GL

[Wes Steele]

I agree with you 100% Paul.

I am tired of all this politically correct stuff.

I am even dissappointed that GL says he has to change the lyrics to satisfy certain groups or make apologies. I don't think he has to apologize to anyone. They are songs..If you don't like them, don't listen to them. They are not causing riots.

There are some songs that GL sings that I don't agree with. Guess What Gang. I usually don't listen to them. It is really simple.

Again, Gordon Lightfoot should not have to apologize to anyone for anyone of his songs.

Wes.......

[charlene]

Paul & Wes- I think I expressed the feeling in that post that the lyrics were what the time and feelings of the writer dictated and if we don't like them we have the choice to listen or not! To me the words of the poet/writer/songwriter are an insight to them as a person and who am I to judge or criticize? It's a lesson in life - take it for what it is and make it yours in whatever way it matters. There is no right or wrong - it's about one human's feelings and none of us can be denied those - that's what makes us human and individual. Gord's words have been such a soundtrack to my adult life I can't even stand it at times. To have the talent to put pen to paper and then put words to music goes beyond my realm of reality - the depth and magnitude of his songs drops me to my knees at times. Maybe it is because I have absolutely no musical ability except turning my radio on, or wishing my musically gifted son could realize one/one hundredth the amount of success as a communicator as Gord has been - in whatever musical field he may walk - to follow the path he chooses and see the success - what a gift!
When Gord was a young man he had a young man's mind - and I for one love that side of him - My gosh - he's as old as my mum! But I see him mostly as a 70's Gord. It was my time in life to be impressionable and Gord and Kris Kristofferson were two big factors! I don't even need their voices or music to make me go to that time - words on paper do it. I may not like it but some of those songs are the times of my life that I most identify with and I wouldn't change a word! I can go back to the time when I was one of those young girls that believed the words of "I'm Not Saying" that a boy would project on me, yet I became my own person and grew from those adolescent feelings into a more self-assured person with more to give than a pitiful "Am I good enough for you?" attitude. It is only after 30 years and almost 26 years of marriage that I realize how much someone else's words resonated through my life. Good and bad, happy and sad.
I have said it before - Gord's music has been a soundtrack of my life - I am sure many of us can say the same and that is what brings us here. Thank heaven for Gord - I can hardly wait until July 8 in Orillia at Tudhope Park - I shall probably weep the whole evening and sleep like an innocent child that night. For the life of me I will never ever grasp the talent that a human such as Gord can have - for me it is a spiritual experience. I don't want to offend those of any religious focus but I take solace, comfort and joy where I can find it and I know where I can go for a dip in the well to quench my thirst.
Ring them bells!
Char

[charlene]

Paul & Wes- I think I expressed the feeling in that post that the lyrics were what the time and feelings of the writer dictated and if we don't like them we have the choice to listen or not! To me the words of the poet/writer/songwriter are an insight to them as a person and who am I to judge or criticize? It's a lesson in life - take it for what it is and make it yours in whatever way it matters. There is no right or wrong - it's about one human's feelings and none of us can be denied those - that's what makes us human and individual. Gord's words have been such a soundtrack to my adult life I can't even stand it at times. To have the talent to put pen to paper and then put words to music goes beyond my realm of reality - the depth and magnitude of his songs drops me to my knees at times. Maybe it is because I have absolutely no musical ability except turning my radio on, or wishing my musically gifted son could realize one/one hundredth the amount of success as a communicator as Gord has been - in whatever musical field he may walk - to follow the path he chooses and see the success - what a gift!
When Gord was a young man he had a young man's mind - and I for one love that side of him - My gosh - he's as old as my mum! But I see him mostly as a 70's Gord. It was my time in life to be impressionable and Gord and Kris Kristofferson were two big factors! I don't even need their voices or music to make me go to that time - words on paper do it. I may not like it but some of those songs are the times of my life that I most identify with and I wouldn't change a word! I can go back to the time when I was one of those young girls that believed the words of "I'm Not Saying" that a boy would project on me, yet I became my own person and grew from those adolescent feelings into a more self-assured person with more to give than a pitiful "Am I good enough for you?" attitude. It is only after 30 years and almost 26 years of marriage that I realize how much someone else's words resonated through my life. Good and bad, happy and sad.
I have said it before - Gord's music has been a soundtrack of my life - I am sure many of us can say the same and that is what brings us here. Thank heaven for Gord - I can hardly wait until July 8 in Orillia at Tudhope Park - I shall probably weep the whole evening and sleep like an innocent child that night. For the life of me I will never ever grasp the talent that a human such as Gord can have - for me it is a spiritual experience. I don't want to offend those of any religious focus but I take solace, comfort and joy where I can find it and I know where I can go for a dip in the well to quench my thirst.
Ring them bells!
Char

[Wingdrops]

I disagree that there is any need for disappointment in talking about changing lyrics. Shakespeare was the greatest writer who ever lived and his text may be edited / updated / criticized / analyzed. Gord is one of the best poets / songwriters of his generation, but even he admits that he wrote some clunkers ("sickly South"). You have to be able to recognize them for what they are -- minor flaws in the gems.

Like most critics, I don't have a scintilla of the talent of the person critiqued. But a forum like this is exactly the place to express one's views. It is censorship to worship the text as if it were sacred. It's not merely a matter of political correctness either. You are free to disagree with us without being "disappointed" in us. Of course, you are also free to express your disappointment.

I remember a couplet from Coleridge's poem "Cristabel" that my English prof pointed out as one of the alltime ghastly goofs by any great poet. It went:

Sir Leonine, the baron rich,
Hath a toothless mastiff bitch.

I doubt there would be much dispute that (a) Coleridge is a great poet, and (b) the second line of the above couplet is unpronounceable. The two concepts -- the greatness of the artist and the flaws in the body of work -- are in tension yet somehow perfectly compatible.

For that reason, notwithstanding my respect for the writers here, I don't think it is reasonable simply to ignore the songs/lyrics you don't like. In my view, it is much more interesting to explore the entire work of a great artist, awed by the artist's creative power yet inquisitive enough to wonder if a nip here and a tuck there might be an improvement. Or not.

It's probably worth pointing out that those who submit serious commentary in this forum are likely among the most zealous of Gord's fans, whether or not we question a line or two.

[2Much2Lose]

I disagree that there is any need for disappointment in talking about changing lyrics. Shakespeare was the greatest writer who ever lived and his text may be edited / updated / criticized / analyzed. Gord is one of the best poets / songwriters of his generation, but even he admits that he wrote some clunkers ("sickly South"). You have to be able to recognize them for what they are -- minor flaws in the gems.

Like most critics, I don't have a scintilla of the talent of the person critiqued. But a forum like this is exactly the place to express one's views. It is censorship to worship the text as if it were sacred. It's not merely a matter of political correctness either. You are free to disagree with us without being "disappointed" in us. Of course, you are also free to express your disappointment.

I remember a couplet from Coleridge's poem "Cristabel" that my English prof pointed out as one of the alltime ghastly goofs by any great poet. It went:

Sir Leonine, the baron rich,
Hath a toothless mastiff bitch.

I doubt there would be much dispute that (a) Coleridge is a great poet, and (b) the second line of the above couplet is unpronounceable. The two concepts -- the greatness of the artist and the flaws in the body of work -- are in tension yet somehow perfectly compatible.

For that reason, notwithstanding my respect for the writers here, I don't think it is reasonable simply to ignore the songs/lyrics you don't like. In my view, it is much more interesting to explore the entire work of a great artist, awed by the artist's creative power yet inquisitive enough to wonder if a nip here and a tuck there might be an improvement. Or not.

It's probably worth pointing out that those who submit serious commentary in this forum are likely among the most zealous of Gord's fans, whether or not we question a line or two.

[Jim]

I try to read every post at this site. I for the most part ejoy them all. Never would I question any of you on your love of Gord's music or talent. I also feel your entitled to your opinion, wether or not others at the site agree or disagree. However I still disagree with your statements 2Much2Lose. I feel editing, or updating any authors work is wrong. Criticizing is alot different than rewriting. when a writer has layed his thoughts down on paper, or in song that is it. We should criticize their work, whether it is good, bad, or absolutely flawless. We also should remember to criticize their work for what it is, for what they wrote it as, not what we feel it could be, or should be. Personally I find nothing wrong with any of the songs mentioned. I just take everything with a grain of salt. People have a tendency to change over time. That doesn't mean they should forget who they were. Char is right about those songs they mark a certain place in time. Whenever you hear them they take you right back to them. I also want to make clear this is not an attack on anyone. When I said i was disappointed I didn't mean to hurt, or offend anyone. I hope people keep posting their thoughts and opinions here. Even if I disagree with them. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

------------------
"If people could look into each other's eyes
What a wonderful place this world would be"
GL

[Paul J B]

I try to read every post at this site. I for the most part ejoy them all. Never would I question any of you on your love of Gord's music or talent. I also feel your entitled to your opinion, wether or not others at the site agree or disagree. However I still disagree with your statements 2Much2Lose. I feel editing, or updating any authors work is wrong. Criticizing is alot different than rewriting. when a writer has layed his thoughts down on paper, or in song that is it. We should criticize their work, whether it is good, bad, or absolutely flawless. We also should remember to criticize their work for what it is, for what they wrote it as, not what we feel it could be, or should be. Personally I find nothing wrong with any of the songs mentioned. I just take everything with a grain of salt. People have a tendency to change over time. That doesn't mean they should forget who they were. Char is right about those songs they mark a certain place in time. Whenever you hear them they take you right back to them. I also want to make clear this is not an attack on anyone. When I said i was disappointed I didn't mean to hurt, or offend anyone. I hope people keep posting their thoughts and opinions here. Even if I disagree with them. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

------------------
"If people could look into each other's eyes
What a wonderful place this world would be"
GL

[Wingdrops]

Paul J B,

No offense taken. To the contrary, I welcome your feedback. I can see I'm in the minority on this one but "Baby, It's alright ... Anything you say, will be OK."

By the way, isn't Char awesome? She has a knack for evoking her personal experience with GL and doing so in vivid and emotional prose. Even tho she disagreed with me on this point, I couldn't dispute her point of view because her personal experience in relating to the lyrics is absolutely valid. No, it's more than valid. It's wonderful to feel her experience second-hand. You listening, Char? We're talking 'bout ya.

[2Much2Lose]

Paul J B,

No offense taken. To the contrary, I welcome your feedback. I can see I'm in the minority on this one but "Baby, It's alright ... Anything you say, will be OK."

By the way, isn't Char awesome? She has a knack for evoking her personal experience with GL and doing so in vivid and emotional prose. Even tho she disagreed with me on this point, I couldn't dispute her point of view because her personal experience in relating to the lyrics is absolutely valid. No, it's more than valid. It's wonderful to feel her experience second-hand. You listening, Char? We're talking 'bout ya.

[Bill]

Hi, Paul.

Could you please e-mail me? I'm kind of new to the internet. Unfortunately, if I use Netscape, it won't load the discussion board and if I use Explorer, it won't let me click onto your e-mail symbol. I would like to talk with you.

My e-mail is w0lfsong_2000@yahoo.com

The "0" in w0lfsong is a zero. (lol -- seems EVERYONE at Yahoo wants "wolf" in their name") Please write.

Thanx

[charlene]

Thank you very much for the compliment! I enjoy discussing something I am so passionate about and Gord is right up there for sure! I also like it that differing points of view can be bantered about without personal attacks, with intelligence (we all are entitled to our opinions) and with a bit of humour thrown in. The purpose of these discussions (in my humble opinion) is to see other views and learn about other people we would never know if it weren't for this cyber world! So far my little journey through space has been a pleasant one and I hope to keep it that way!
Have a safe one everyone!
Char
:-D

[charlene]

Thank you very much for the compliment! I enjoy discussing something I am so passionate about and Gord is right up there for sure! I also like it that differing points of view can be bantered about without personal attacks, with intelligence (we all are entitled to our opinions) and with a bit of humour thrown in. The purpose of these discussions (in my humble opinion) is to see other views and learn about other people we would never know if it weren't for this cyber world! So far my little journey through space has been a pleasant one and I hope to keep it that way!
Have a safe one everyone!
Char
:-D

[Florian]

Hi Paul J B,

Another BIG reason for me not to change the lyrics:

I must admit I like to sing along with the songs (mostly when I'm driving solo in my car so nobody is embarassed with my singing).

If anything gets changed, I can't sing along properly.

When you've heard a song countless times it's hard to get yourself used to another version.

[Tom]

I've just discovered this chat forum and fairly new at it too, so bear with me . . .
What's all this talk about lyric changes? What song/songs did Gord change to make it "politically correct?"
I've always thought I was right on top of any news concerning GL, like at Y2K, his voice was the first heard over the airwaves somewhere in Canada (forgive me, I can't recall the exact details), but obviously I'm not. I hadn't realized I was so out of touch concerning my favorite performer. Can someone fill me in?

[Mary Ann]

I've just discovered this chat forum and fairly new at it too, so bear with me . . .
What's all this talk about lyric changes? What song/songs did Gord change to make it "politically correct?"
I've always thought I was right on top of any news concerning GL, like at Y2K, his voice was the first heard over the airwaves somewhere in Canada (forgive me, I can't recall the exact details), but obviously I'm not. I hadn't realized I was so out of touch concerning my favorite performer. Can someone fill me in?

[vlmagee]

I don't think there was much changed to be "politically correct", which is not to say that Gordon hasn't thought about it. Most of the examples are verses that are left out when he performs the song in concert today. To say that he is dropping the verses as a form of "self-censorship", is probably an overstatement. He does still sing For Lovin' Me in medley, even though it is a highly chauvanistic song. And he says that. And, he apologize for it but I - like many here - don't think he need apologize. He was not any different from most of the other men of his generation and, sadly, far too many men in later generations as well.

I think that when he drops verses, we need to consider that part of his motivation is to allow himself to perform more songs. Now, at 61, he is still performing 25 or more songs in every full concert (and 17 or 18 in each of two concerts in one night, when he does that format). We are all damn lucky that he performs that many. I've seen a lot of other artists who perform far fewer.

So, if he cuts a verse out of (for example): Sundown, Cotton Jenny, 14 Karat Gold (all of which he cuts a verse from) or even two from Ode To Big Blue, but sings all of them (or other great songs), rather than only two or three in the same amount of time, it's probably a good thing to do. He never drops verses from certain songs, including Canadian Railroad Trilogy, his longest, and Wreck, which is right up there. I think he and we would agree that certain songs can't be altered. And, when he does want to cut out a verse, he probably does try to cut out one that doesn't hurt the song and that perhaps isn't (or isn't any longer) a verse he feels he needs. So if he cuts out the verse with "sickly south" from Cotton Jenny, it is certainly a judgment I can respect. But I think it is wrong to assume that "correctness" is his primary motivation. I think time considerations came first in most cases.

The lyrics change in If You Could Read My Mind (from "feeliings that you lack" to "feelings that we lack") was made to please his daughter, who asked him about it when she was just a child (saying something like "Don't you lack feelings too, Daddy?"). I think that change, subtle as it is, is beautiful in and of itself and doesn't change the meaning or the spirit of the song.

So, don't worry about his lyrics changes. True, if you are not expecting it and you are singing along, you'll get tripped up when he drops a verse (as someone else mentioned). But he has remained true to himself, and to us too I think.

------------------
Valerie Magee

[charlene]

MaryAnn;
Gord's was the first voice Canadians heard at the crack of 1999. (not 2000)I took a picture of the TV! I can't remember what he was singing but he had on a tux and looked pretty good. I was all goofed up on chocolate fondue and champagne!
Next year it's Kahlua Snocones with the fondue!
Char
LOL

[charlene]

MaryAnn;
Gord's was the first voice Canadians heard at the crack of 1999. (not 2000)I took a picture of the TV! I can't remember what he was singing but he had on a tux and looked pretty good. I was all goofed up on chocolate fondue and champagne!
Next year it's Kahlua Snocones with the fondue!
Char
LOL

[Paul J B]

Valerie,
Well said!! I feel the same....

------------------
Ever Onward...

[Chuck Darling]

Valerie,
Well said!! I feel the same....

------------------
Ever Onward...

[Tom]

Valerie,
Thanks for the info. As like Chuck, I agree with you whole heartedly.

Charlene,
Taking a picture of a TV? Oh honey, maybe you need to settle for a
diet Coke and a handful of salted peanuts to ring in the new year (just kidding!).
And leave it to the 'Naughty' mother (who admires both sides of GL) of a sixteen yr. old to set me right. (LOL) I promise to get my facts straight next time.

[Mary Ann]

Valerie,
Thanks for the info. As like Chuck, I agree with you whole heartedly.

Charlene,
Taking a picture of a TV? Oh honey, maybe you need to settle for a
diet Coke and a handful of salted peanuts to ring in the new year (just kidding!).
And leave it to the 'Naughty' mother (who admires both sides of GL) of a sixteen yr. old to set me right. (LOL) I promise to get my facts straight next time.

[charlene]

Mary Ann;
I'll send the pic of Gord on TV if you want! I have it scanned and can e-mail it. I do have to say that I preferred Gord a little more robust back in the day when he filled out his jeans so nice. He's got no butt anymore! His rms and back are still lookin good tho! Oh, sorry Florian - I got carried away! Bad girl! The lusty groupie side escaped for a moment - LOL Hey I do have some memories after all - hahaha.
my e-mail is : westbrd@sprint.ca
I love you Georgia peaches Mary Ann - my sis lived in Atlanta and we went down one summer - lord could it get any steamier! The Georgia peaches in her neighborhood were a hoot and a half - we had a ball!
The chocolate fondue and champagne is a tradition in this house for years and I am so glad that Gord could join us tht New Years Eve! He was very quiet though......
Char