Gord Chord question
 

I am hoping that with all of these guitar playing Lightheads, someone can help me with a missing chord or two. I can usually hear it but I'm stumped this time.

In "Can't Depend on Love", what is the progression for "I was only trying to " before it goes to e minor on "by with".

I would appreciate any help. The sad part is, I used to know this, and can't remember. Old age perhaps?

Thanks,

Brian

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Hi Brian, Sorry, but I hardly even know that song let alone the chords.
Will try to take a shot at it soon after I listen to it.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Brian,

i fake it with a Bm chord adding G....i suppose it's like a G major 7th with B bass

someone like GordisKing may be more specific... looking forward to your renditon

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Just curious, have you checked Wayne's site?
http://www.lightfoot.ca/cantdpnd.htm
Some of the B chords throw me, but that's nothing new! (Never met a B chord I liked! oh, I like the sound, just have a heck of a time trying to play them!!!)

Re: Gord Chord question
 

any help?

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=...37/wQuueMZUDRg

thx to char for this:)

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Thanks to everyone for the help. As for Wayne's site, I have never heard of the listed chord (Bm5+) and cannot find it online either.
Dan Hill is hanging with what would be a Bm in Gord's range, so maybe he is as stumped as we are. I used to play that song all the time, and I don't remember missing any chords, but alas, even muscle memory will not revive it. I appreciate all the effort. One of us will figure it out.
It has become the holy grail of Gord chord's, at least till I stumble again.

Brian

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Here is a good question to ask 'THE MAN' himself.

Although we still haven't heard from GordisKing or maybe Ron (lighthead to toe)

Interesting thread this makes. I also am looking forward to your renditon Brian.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

that's an augmented (+) chord ie. take the 5th and make it sharp, in this case the F# to a G

but the + doesn't sound quite right, on piano anyhow...on guitar i just go with a Bm7

i believe Dan Hill used Wayne's reference as he prepped for Hugh's room

Re: Gord Chord question
 

I was asked to send info/mp3 or where song could be found for Dan to use.. I believe he used Lightfoot's recording of the song that I sent for him to use.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

It has been 10 plus years since I was able to get my stroke-affected left hand 's fingers around the fret so I cannot now test this out for myself but for reference here are the first few lines with chords as presented on Wayne's site:-
C) I spent most of my life outside (G) in the driving rain
(Bm5+) I was only trying to get (Em9) by with some of (Em) life's ameni(Am7)ties
Well (G) nothing's free
(G/B) I got more than I (Am7) bargained for, (G/B) now it's (B7) plain to (C) see
I (G/B) can't depend on (Am) love to defend (G) me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Joe (Post 163926) Here is a good question to ask 'THE MAN' himself.

yes well no doubt our busking Vancouverine has every one of Gord's chords etched deeply into his memory but some years ago Ron passed to me a number of his singalong sheet music volumes.So he probably does not have the relevant book to hand
I have two copies of the ODR book (one is ex Ron plus one cedded to me by the chatroom pioneer Rik Stevens.)
I have therefore been able to scan the relevant page see the attachment full sized
I note that whoever contrived the chords set the song in a different key to the one that Wayne used so the recalcitrant Bm5+ is unfortunately not shown therein
i tried searching for it at:-
http://jguitar.com/chordsearch?chordsearch=Bm5%2B
which reported:-
"The following chord symbols were not understood. Please make sure they are correct and try again.



<DIR><DIR>"Bm5+"



</DIR></DIR>However as Gord has recently been making great play on the fact that he plays capoed music I feel pretty confident, Brian, that with your capo you can adapt the chords shown on the sheet music page to suit your vocal range or whatever your particular whim dictates

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Whilst digging out the various sheet music book copies I refound a useful "Magic Guitar Chord Chart" a 4 sided crib sheet (that I used to use in the days when I still had pretensions of mastering guitar playing!!) It does show "augmented" chords so I wiil attach 4 scans for what they are worth

Re: Gord Chord question
 

ok, there ya go, it's a Bm (go with first instincts, lol) or just a straight C#m if non-capoed

I believe Wayne's site has all chords charted assuming a capo is used, I assume to make it more guitar friendly and to emulate Gord's approach

wow, I've not seen a GL sheet music score or book full of em...these are so piano friendly, can you scan them all, sir John? lol

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Hi everyone,

I just spotted this thread now and saw my name mentioned. It's been a while since I've listened to the song and I'm and work at the moment. Tonight or tomorrow I'll give it a listen and give my two cents for what they're worth. I don't usually trust sheet music because it's often been simplified.

Hope everyone's doing well. By the way, I've moved to New Hampshire now in case any Lightheads in the area.

Tim

Re: Gord Chord question
 

In a word NO:p but
You really should take your blinkers off and/or get out more young Mr Jones.
The subject of the "singalong" music books has been aired here before I am sure not least by the elder Mr Jones who I suspect is still convinced that he once owned the book that matches the Sunday Concert album which is one that never comes up on Ebay.
Try this link
http://instruments.shop.ebay.com/She...=p3286.c0.m282
Yiu will find that of the 32 items currently on offer many are based on the album and their front covers are a facsimile of the original vinyl album cover. To make my point I'll attach a sample
Right now a seller in Muntreal has the extended Back Here On Earth book and has pictures showing the song content and a pair of sample pages at:-
http://cgi.ebay.com/GORDON-LIGHTFOOT...item255c2226e2
The same seller is offering:-
http://cgi.ebay.com/GORDON-LIGHTFOOT...item51940487b9
both at the low starting price of $3.95
Of course if you are desperate for a few songs I could scan my copies

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Jimbo you really should by now have found and read Wayne's comprehensive page on this subject at:-
http://www.lightfoot.ca/songbook.htm
for yours and Ron's education and interest Wayne says:-
SUNDAY CONCERT
- No book was issued.
- See "Sit Down Young Stranger"

SIT DOWN YOUNG STRANGER
- Apology, In A Windowpane and Leaves Of Grass from Sunday Concert are included in this book. Unfortunately, Ballad Of The Yarmouth Castle and The Lost Children are not

Re: Gord Chord question
 

These are my 4 Gordon Lightfoot (Song Books) but no "Yarmouth Castle" in anyone of them.

*

Re: Gord Chord question
 

This thread has taken on quite a life.

I believe I may have found a passable solution after listening over and aver again to that line. It appears to be an Em9 (specific variation) to a quick G/b to Am7. I play this in C, although Gord plays it in D I believe. There's still something missing, but it will have to do, pending further enlightenment.

My thanks again to all for the effort, from those who will keep his great music alive!

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Hi everyone,

I'm back with my two cents. First a technical matter. As we all know, Gord capos at fret two. Which means that what we casually refer to as a "G" (fret three of 6 fret 2 of five fret 3 of 1 ) when referred to the capo position is in fact an A and so on. This is a distinction that tends not to be made most of the time but it drives me a bit crazy. That said I will speak as if the capo is the nut as is customary and put the actual chords in parentheses.

Unsettled is pretty close. Em9(F#m9) would work. What I'm hearing is different on different verses. In verse 1 I hear Bm flat 6(C#m flat 6). It's played on the middle four strings with the 5th string fretted at 2(4) and the 4th string fretted at 4(6) and the g and b strings played open(2). From there he keeps that fingering but plays an E(F#) in the base which makes that same configuration into an Em sus2(F#m sus2).

In verse two it sounds like the configuration I described above is the same for the 5th 4th and 2nd strings, but that the g string is now fretted at 2(4) which makes the chord a
Bm7(C#m7) that's missing its minor third. I think I prefer the sound of verse one to verse two, but they both work.

An interesting thing I noticed along the way: The notes for the part of the lyric that starts with "I was only" and ends on "to get" form what's called the phrygian mode of the G(A) major scale. This is just the G(A) scale played starting on the B(C#) instead of the G(A) below and ending on the B(C#) a major 3rd above the octave.

I hope this helps and that the parenthetic chords don't drive the rest of you crazy. That's what I get for studying jazz.

Happy picking.

Tim

Re: Gord Chord question
 

By the way unsettled, I just read your post above a bit more carefully. I think you mean that the melody starts on C(D). But the song resolves to G(A). But C(D) is pretty prominent in the song and it's the dominant 4 chord in the key of G(A). So the key of the song is a bit ambiguous.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

You are absolutely correct sir. Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

I just realized that I made a mistake above. The fingerings I describe are okay but I misnamed one of the chords. I should have said Bm flat 6 (C#m flat 6) which is consistent with what I think jj was saying further up. A +5 and a flat 6 are the same thing. Sorry about that. Maybe I should edit the post....

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Nobody's prefect :biggrin: (perfect) Tim, it's an honest mistake. ;)

Re: Gord Chord question
 

great stuff, Tim....

Re: Gord Chord question
 

ok, that makes two of us...but it no longer drives me crazy

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Hi Guys.

Sorry to be away for so long but the weather in Vancouver has been just fantastic and I'm working away like crazy doing outdoor shows and enjoying every moment. After all, is it really possible to ever get tired of playing Gordon Lightfoot songs especially when there is audience out there willing to listen? And the answer is....

Now to answer the infamous Gord chord question:

It's "Em9."

The "Old Dan's Records" song book lays everything out in detail.

So the index finger covers the A string on the second fret and the little finger covers the D string on the fourth fret.

A beautiful chord for a very beautiful song, as only Gord can do it.

Stay loose.

RJ.



Cheers,

RJ.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Forgot to mention also that Gord plays it with the capo on the second fret.

In his liner notes he says to use to capo to adjust to your individual vocal range. R.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Hi again everyone,

I've been traveling to Santa Fe NM so I missed a day of checking this thread. Thanks for the moral support jj ;).

Just one thing: I'm going to have stick to my guns here and respectfully disagree with Ron. As I've said already, I often find myself hearing things that aren't in the books.

The notes of the chords in question are:

Em9 - E G B F#

Bm flat 6 - B D F# G

What I hear - B F# G B
- B F# G C#
- E B F# G B

As you can see the chords are closely related. Emin9 will work, but it won't sound exactly like what's on the recording.

As for the variations in what i hear, they are partly measure dependent and partly verse dependent.

Anyway, the fingerings I suggest in the post above should sound right if you try them out.

Best, Tim

Re: Gord Chord question
 

yeah...what Tim said..my thoughts too.
;)

damn i wish I had some musical talent..

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Bm5+

||---|---|---|---|---|----
||---|---|-4-|---|---|----|
||---|---|---|---|---|----
||---|---|---|-5-|---|----
||---|-2-|---|---|---|----
||---|---|---|---|---|----X


As suggested in the OLD DAN'S RECORDS Songbook.


The left hand fingers are numbered 1 to 5. As has already been pointed out the 2 bars in question are the Phrygrian mode in G, and the "ing" of trying is on the G note. So I guess that is why it [G] is included in the Bm chord. I am aware that Gordon capos his songs. That's my 10 pence worth.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

couple of things:

i think Ron is referring to the section a few measures beyond what we were originally discussing (ie. the start of the melodic run)...glad you are back safe and sound, my good man

imo, the entire melodic run we've discussed appeals to me the least in this composition

Tim, i think you have jessie and myself mixed up...but i also support you!

in general, often play a root bass when it should be otherwise (eg, C/E or C/G)

sir John and Jessie...i didn't realize there were scores for all GL songs/albums, just the 'hits'....i think i've basically figured out and transposed a whack over the years but here are 3 that I would be interested in comparing if you don't mind scanning:

Nous Vivons Ensemble - My Pony Won't Go - Another Lazy Morning

perhaps the first section of Cabaret also...I usually just jump in after the 'pop'

cheers

ok, Round #2, lol)

What is the chord in On the high Seas at the start of the "and since I don't know, let me guess" phrase?

it could be diminished...i just passed thru it usually playing a dominant 7th

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Hey guys.

Just decided to take the day off and have some fun here as well as catch up on a few chores that have been on hold for a while.

But let me start with the most recent and address JJ's chord matter since he doesn't know and I won't keep him guessing.

From the "Dream Street Rose" songbook for piano and guitar (3rd fret) the piano chord is "Am7-5" and the guitar chord is "F#m7-5."
So for the guitar it would be like an Am with either the little finger or thumb covering the low E string on the second fret.
Summing up, the B string is covered on the first fret, the low E, D and G string covered on the second fret.
That's the "And since I" part. The "Don't know" part is a B7 (piano, D7) and the "Let me guess" part ends with an Em (Gm piano).

So JJ, now you're back "On the High Seas."

I'll bring along the appropriate songbooks with me when I come to Ontario for the month of Sept. and hopefully we'll get together for a "scanning party."

Cheers,

RJ.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

I hope this is what you were asking for jj ?

(1) Nous Vivons Ensemble

Re: Gord Chord question
 

(2) My Pony Wont Go

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(3) Another Lazy Morning

Re: Gord Chord question
 

(4) Cabaret

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Hey jj,

I dont have "On The High Seas" in my Song Books !


http://www.lightfoot.ca/onhighse.htm

Re: Gord Chord question
 

An interesting point to raise here would be that the corresponding songbooks to Gord's albums came out in different versions.
As an example , the "Old Dan's Records" songbook that Jesse Joe highlights is the "piano/vocal version. If you zoom in you can see it clearly.
The one that I have is the "guitar, original lead sheets and notes" version.
My "Summer Side of Life" songbook also has guitar, original lead sheets and notes.
These versions are also hand written by Gord.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

"Ballad of the Yarmouth Castle" is available on "www.chordie.com." It's a great song and I love the version John Stinson does with Paul Bartlett on lead guitar.
RJ.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

The ongoing uncertainty of the validity of the "Sunday Concert" songbook keeps my mind constantly in the "probing mode" and I have to admit that I am unable to come up with anything to this point to confirm that there was in fact one published.
What troubles me though is that apart from the vivid image of it there in my collection, I also remember learning the chords to "Ballad of the Yarmouth Castle," "The Lost Children" as well as "In a Windowpane," and "Leaves of Grass," as I used to get requests for those tunes at parties etc. in those days.
I would never be able to figure out "Gord's chords" without the help of his songbooks as my ear is far from keen when it comes to sorting out individual notes, chords etc. and I never did learn how to read music.
The Sunday Concert album was recorded in March, 1969 and I remember it well as I was there in Massey Hall that afternoon up real close to the front.
There was no E Bay in those days and Wayne Francis was just a kid.
My songbooks were shared with other aspiring Gordon Lightfoot fans and there were occasions when I needed to refer to one and upon discovering that it wasn't in the collection I simply went out and bought a second copy, and I still have several duplicates of some.
"A & A Records and Books" was next door to "Sam the Record Man" on Yonge Street in Toronto and that's where I would buy all my songbooks.
The "Sunday Concert Songbook" issue might haunt me to the grave. I need help!

Stay loose.

The Elder Jones.

Re: Gord Chord question
 

Hi Jim,

I don't doubt either that this is what is in the Old Dan's Records book or that you're aware of the capoing issue- my apologies for making such an issue of it -

But this chord is not what I hear when I listen to the song. Technically, it's also not a Bm+5. There is a crucial difference between a Bm5+ and a Bm flat 6. A Bm5+ is a minor triad with the 5th sharped. There is no natural 5th in the chord. A Bm flat 6 is a full Bminor (natural 5th included) with a flatted sixth (a sharped 5) added. So we hear both the F# (the natural 5th) and the flatted 6th (G). The chord you've presented above has both the F# - played on string 4 and the G played on string 3.

The D obtained by fretting string 2 at three is the minor 3rd which does belong to Bm flat 6, but if you include it you won't hear what's on the record. Remove that finger and play the B string open and you will here it in all it's glory.

JJ -actually it was both of you.

To all, I'm sorry if I'm being a bit over-precise here but I got the impression that Brian was asking for the chord that best matches what's on the recording so the books are only useful if they actually say what's used on the recording and my experience is that they rarely get it completely right.

regards to all,

Tim