(potentially stupid) grammar question
 

i was wondering about the phrasing on the last words of this verse of Betty called me in. he has a weird way of phrasing the words and it comes up in a lot of his songs. is this a typical canadian accent or a noval Lightfoot creation?.. i dont hear it in american singers, but it happens the most in the song and a lot of his others? especially of the last word of a verse


Betty my true love do what you do 'tonight'
Where she goes I hope she knows she's 'right'
The worst of 'times' and the best of 'times'
She was never the 'kind' to kick and bitch and 'fight'


help out someone from the other side of the world!

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

I'm not sure I understand what your asking.
Perhaps it's for rhyming effect..seems 'normal' to me tho..
;)

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

i guess i'll never be canadian then :(

maybe Dave or Sydney Steve can back me up!

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

fine observation, jove

if i "hear" you right, i wouldn't call it a canuck accent thing but i know of other singers that naturally bend a one syllable lyric ..or take a 2 syllable word and ride it into 3 or 4

but what you're really talking about might be the phonetics of the "i"....there is the soft "i" as in pIck, there is the hard "i" as in mIke and then there's what i call the lightfoot "i" (aka, the maritime "aye")...there's also the lightfoot "a" "e" "o" and "u"...and always "y"

aside: Betty is used in a few GL tunes....i imagine it was a special gal or just a common name surrounding him growing up in those parts....anyhow, my middle sis (Betty-Ann) moves to Orillia decades ago...much to my surprise, years later everyone up there calls her Liz...anyhow, i wasn't really going anywhere with that

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

in my 31 year old years, he changes the "i" into "ae"

i thought it might be a canadian thing

is an:

Betty my true love do what you do 'toonate'
Where she goes I hope she knows she's 'rate'
The worst of 'tames' and the best of 'tames'
She was never the 'kaind' to kick and bitch and 'fate'

just like "allright" becomes "all-rate" (maybe cunuck accents think its the same thing!) :)

if i sit here and listen to every album, i can probably flood the board! i thought it might be a canadian thing

:)

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

it's not actually a maritime thing, i should have said it's Gord's Irish coming out...it's spelled "i'ye" :)


but in the rural areas, like Orillia, we do talk "Fargo" too...it's a blend

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

I still don't hear it mate. Must be your Aussie ears..
;)

hey JJ - Elizabeth can be shortened to Liz, Betty, Lisbet, Lillibet, Eliza, Beth, etc..
and Gord is Scottish..not Irish..

;)

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

I knew a girl from Long Island where "quarter" and "water" rhyme. (Quoahtah and Wuoahtah"). I also understand that a welsh accent causes broad and road to rhyme.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

oh that's right, it's YOU who's Irish! lol

i made a Gordian slip:)

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

I'm Canadian of Italian and Scottish heritage..No Irish at all..
;)
was it a full slip or half slip?

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

When I lived on the east coast I got a brand new name. Many words ending in "a" get changed to "er" so I became Linder. My British friend Howard calls me the same thing. So does my Australian friend Annette.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

Mende, I know of what you speak. I think it is a Gord/Canadian thing.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

phew!.. someone understands :)

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

happy bunny day to you and yours, deb :headbang: (that's a bunny hopping and listening to Gord, his ears are just bunched up under those phones)

just to clarify, not an overall Canuck thing but a dialect more rooted and on the east coast and you can hear it when they speak whereas not when Gord speaks but when he sings

isn't interesting how British singers often lose their accents when they sing? in this case, Gord picks one up when he does...hope that's clear as mud:)

char...yeah, i fully and completely slipped! i'm scot/wales/eng, no 'rish

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

Thanks JJ, Happy Day to you and Harry too.

I have noticed that talking to Gord he has a different pronunciation than when he sings. Interesting too that people that stutter often lose the stutter when they sing, i.e. Mel Tillis.

I think I shall go to Bah-ham-a.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

That reminds me......his pronunciation of Salinas in 'Me And Bobby Magee' use to drive me nuts. When he recorded it, he sang Sa lye nas, Thankfully, when I saw him perform that song last year, the correct Spanish pronunciation of Sa lee nas was in place.

I say po-tay-toe, and you say po-tah-toe.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

Lots of his geographic pronunciations are peculiar . . .

CaliFORN' EYE ay

North Ontar EYE' o

. . . for example

I like this thread a lot. Something tells me it'll go on for quite some time. I might have to go by Oh, Linder....

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

i always thought they were so that the can fit the beat of the song.. it seems like it, but it might be an accent thing

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

Is it an Aussie "thing" to spell the word novel..."noval"?

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

no, more like bad spelling!

why do americans spell COLOUR as COLOR?. dont the keyboards have a U key? :)

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

We're just very efficient folks.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

Joveski,

I think the answer to your question is that Gord emphasises the consonant at the end of a line. A good example is the song "Much To My Surprise". (James Taylor, on the other hand, emphasises vowels and pronounces "a" and "the" as "ay" and "thee".)

Hey, yesterday I met a Canadian-born winery owner at Panton Hill, just north-east of Melbourne (near the fire-devastated Kinglake area). He said he once went ice fishing at Lake Simcoe and the fisherman next to him turned out to be Gordon Lightfoot!

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

And how small is the world??? That is incredible.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

Actually what you're hearing is the Scottish influence in Canadian English.

In Canada's early days, Scots accounted for approximately 25% of the population. Today, amongst native English-speakers in Canada, about 35% are of Scots ancestry, 55% are of English heritage and the remaining 15% or so are Irish. Part of the reason why there was an influence at all is that the Scots back then ran the schools, the banks, the churches and played a large role in government (hell, our first Prime Minister was a Scot!!) In short, they played a huge role in shaping Canada's language and culture.

To most Canadians what you hear in Gord's accent is pretty subtle and passes without notice. But to Americans and other non-British speakers of the language, it's often quite noticeable. Listen to a speaker of Scots English say the words 'tonight', 'times' and 'right' and you'll hear what I'm talking about. The pronunciation may not be exactly the same but you'll hear unmistakable commonalities.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

The pronunciations of 'California' and 'Ontario' you noted are not the way Canadians pronounce the words. Gord deliberately mispronounced the words for stylistic reasons.

Hope that helps. :biggrin:

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

http://www.filmakers.com/index.php?a...il&filmID=1314

this film was quite interesting when i saw it. they were of the opinion that much of the canadian sound comes from a mix of british and american english. this was because of the way canada was settled by brits and americans.

this site explains;
http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/Canadian/canhistory.html

and in part says:
The idea that a dialect is a hybrid often implies that it is not a distinct variety. Coupled with a collective sensitivity about their own identity, English Canadians will bristle at the suggestion that their speech is half-American, half-British, and not at all their own. This need not be the case: a dialect can be seen as a hybrid in terms of its history, but as a distinct form in terms of its current usage. That is, Canadians can claim to speak a distinct variety of English that has the English of both Americans and British as its predecessors.

We can tie the dualistic background of Canadian English directly to the dualistic background of the settlement of English Canada. Following the seizing of the French colony of Quebec in 1761, all of eastern North America was under the control of the British Empire. The thirteen American colonies had already been densely settled, and the dialects of the eastern seaboard had begun to emerge. Maritime Canada had also seen settlement, which is part of why Maritime English remains distinct today.

However, Upper Canada, the region that was to become Ontario, now Canada's most populous province, was at that time sparsely settled. Migration of Europeans to Ontario lagged behind that of the eastern colonies for several reasons, notably among them the harshness of the winter and its distance from ocean ports. Following the American Revolution, however, settlement of Ontario increased in pace, both with the continuing arrival of Europeans, but more significantly with the migration of Loyalists (or "Tories") who fled the United States.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

I rest my case.......Canadians talk funny.

Re: (potentially stupid) grammar question
 

"Following the American Revolution, however, settlement of Ontario increased in pace, both with the continuing arrival of Europeans, but more significantly with the migration of Loyalists (or "Tories") who fled the United States."

we were taught well by fleeing americans...
;)