You are correct RMD! That guy ruined Baseball but that's another subject for another forum.

You are correct RMD! That guy ruined Baseball but that's another subject for another forum.

Oh there's that dreaded term "true fans" or "truest fans". Makes it sound like a guilt trip or something! I am not too enamoured by his voice these days either but I still like his songwriting and his band is very tight. I LOVE the sound those guys get and the shows are still very cozy. As I've stated earlier, the man is 68 years old. All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better.

Oh there's that dreaded term "true fans" or "truest fans". Makes it sound like a guilt trip or something! I am not too enamoured by his voice these days either but I still like his songwriting and his band is very tight. I LOVE the sound those guys get and the shows are still very cozy. As I've stated earlier, the man is 68 years old. All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better.

This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ?

This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ? [/QUOTE]These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces.

This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ? [/QUOTE]These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces.

These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces. [/QUOTE]My logic (which is far from flawless) gets divided on this subject. On one side it tells me you are absolutely correct. Piece of cake.

The other side asks "Are you telling me that Lightfoot hasn't thought of this. That at some point he didn't think to say 'Guys, I can't hit that note anymore. Let's lower it a notch'; and that no one in the band has made that suggestion ?".

There must be a reason.

Yeah. Laziness! J/K! LOL!

Yeah. Laziness! J/K! LOL!

Ken,
Gord still has one of the most provacative voices
around. He is an amazing artist. I happen to really love APPT. The songs are outstanding in my humble opinion. It is obviously all a matter of opinion which albums are the best. It is interesting to note that despite a considrable amount of panning even on this apparantly Gord loving site, critically if you read many of the reviews of the day in 1998 (ex. goldmine, mojo ... this album is very respected). Way to go Charo for that inteview!!
Bill Hall

this album is very respected). Way to go Charo for that inteview!!
Bill Hall [/QB][/QUOTE]


Dear Lord!!! I meant Charzo!!!

Dear Lord!!! I meant Charzo!!! [/QB][/QUOTE]

COOCHIE COOCHIE BILLYBOY!
lol
;)
CHar
Char
Charo
Charzo

Diane will have big hugs for you (and Frank!)

Dear Lord!!! I meant Charzo!!! [/QB][/QUOTE]

COOCHIE COOCHIE BILLYBOY!
lol
;)
CHar
Char
Charo
Charzo

Diane will have big hugs for you (and Frank!)

Boy this topic sure is generating controversy and I realize that Ken is relatively new on the board here as opposed to many of us faithfuls who have taken the musical package of Gordon Lightfoot along for a year and many. And it's nice to hear what folks have to say, especially new voices. And more so, it seems evident that Ken recently discovered the vast legacy of material that Gord has accomplished. Now for those of us who have followed the voice through over the years, the "Painter Passing Through" issue would sail completely over our heads. When I listen to that song, (and I'm just beginning to realize just what a great piece of work it really is) I hear the voice of a guy in my own age group who's still out there strutting his stuff and yes, his voice has aged and survived a near death experience even, still there's no shortage of audiences who travel from many parts of the world to get to see and hear him perform. But if I can try and make a comparison here; when I travel to Toronto and I get to see my grandchildren after not seeing them for a period of time, well, yes there's an amazing difference in everything about them. I realize it may be a wild comparison but I know for sure that, based on my own health experiences not all of our parts are going to be in top performance at the the same time as we age. But we take what we have and work with it the best way we can. Sure hope I get to move on successfully to a new paragraph here and comment on the subject of the lowering of the voice. Are we on here guys? Cool! OK. Now, if you listen to "Remember Me" on the "Songbook" collection, the low notes that Gord hits there, well, to me they are at the bottom of his range. So it seems he has more difficulty with the lower notes than he does with the high ones. Considering that, if you take an epic piece of work like "The Canadian Railroad Trilogy," well I honestly can't see any possibly that the key for that work could could be lowered any because of the demand that it requires on the voice range. He's a master though at substituting harmony notes in place of the ones that he's not sure of. It seems as well that his gift is a tenor voice as opposed to any other. But Gord being Gord he can go out there and sing it any way he wants to and there never will be a shortage of folks lining up to watch this guy in action. Anyone who wants to try and make a go of it the music business, study the master and you'll learn a thing or two. Thanks, Ron J. (Guess the paragraph thing didn't work out)

I first heard Mr Lightfoot and his music when my friend dragged me to one of his concerts out here in California in February and I was absolutely amazed by his music, stage persona and yes his voice (!) and all the feeling he puts into each and every song. I've been hooked ever since and still working on getting all his Cds. " Painter" is one I have not got yet, but I do have Harmony which I've been listening to non stop for three weeks in the car now and I think he sounds great on that one.
The people who don't go to his concerts anymore because his voice changed, like Borderstone mentioned in his post, are missing out big time in my opinion. I for my part can't wait for June to come around, which is when I'm going to Houston to see him again.
:)

I first heard Mr Lightfoot and his music when my friend dragged me to one of his concerts out here in California in February and I was absolutely amazed by his music, stage persona and yes his voice (!) and all the feeling he puts into each and every song. I've been hooked ever since and still working on getting all his Cds. " Painter" is one I have not got yet, but I do have Harmony which I've been listening to non stop for three weeks in the car now and I think he sounds great on that one.
The people who don't go to his concerts anymore because his voice changed, like Borderstone mentioned in his post, are missing out big time in my opinion. I for my part can't wait for June to come around, which is when I'm going to Houston to see him again.
:)

Hi Kerstin,

Great post and I agree with you. Gordon's persona, voice and all the feeling he puts into each song has been with him at every concert. Yes, maybe his voice is not as strong as it was 30 years ago but he is still an awesome singer, poet, perfomer and much more.

Looking forward to hopefully seeing you in Houston. :)

When he changed the end of BEAUTIFUL in his concerts for the first time I was shocked...It took many more times of hearing it to really be comfortable with it tho.
He took those last notes that he wasn't perfecting any longer and made a change to keep the song in the setlist.
The song now has a different texture with that change.
For me it has changed the specific words of "you're beautiful" from an all out declaration of feelings in a new love, to having a more wistful tone - it's a love with a history now, perhaps a love that is gone but the sentiment is the same.
With age and time the message is just relayed differently.

[ April 13, 2007, 21:14: Message edited by: charlene ]

When he changed the end of BEAUTIFUL in his concerts for the first time I was shocked...It took many more times of hearing it to really be comfortable with it tho.
He took those last notes that he wasn't perfecting any longer and made a change to keep the song in the setlist.
The song now has a different texture with that change.
For me it has changed the specific words of "you're beautiful" from an all out declaration of feelings in a new love, to having a more wistful tone - it's a love with a history now, perhaps a love that is gone but the sentiment is the same.
With age and time the message is just relayed differently.

[ April 13, 2007, 21:14: Message edited by: charlene ]

interesting stuff, well, deb, the topic sure has got alot of attention deservedly or not, eh? lol;)

the latter sub-topic of key change is one I'd love to chat amongst this group in person (instead of all this typing, cos I really don't like tying at all, i'm a hunt & pecker, agh)

i've always consider the choice of key which the song is written recorded in, as part of the composition of song itself...i believe that an artist is going to cover a song then they should do it in the written key or just leave it alone - right from the intro onward, if i hear the first few notes in a different key than i grew accustomed to then it just doesn't sound 'right'- that's just my opinion and it's not a practical one - anyhow, does anyone know if Gord has changed keys of songs he's done live vs. studio versions?

i'm not sure what songs are being referred to for key change recommendation? I agree that he needn't bother doing the high notes at the end of SFAWN (like he attempted on MMM live) - last time I heard him do that live he didn't, as I recall

as Char and Ron were saying re: opting for alternative melody notes such as in Beautiful live, I really think this is the answer...as long as it's not a drastic change, I really like when he or any artist delivers new phrasings or melody notes when performing live...actually, I love that, and that's a large part of what I'm there for and to hear live arrangements...odd that I'm flexible on any melody and phrasings but stubborn about key changes, eh? lol

but some artists go totally overboard on changing their live versions of songs, eh...sometimes I just shake my head and say "what was THAT!???"

hey, if keys were to be changed, shouldn't they songs be transposed up and not down a notch in most cases? what songs are you referring to gretschviking1967? i think the ability to hit low or high notes is more about projection/diaphram limitations than his voice changing over which may or may not be related to smoking...i actually thought smoking makes the voice lower...the change is probably natural or related to other bad habits from the past...anyhow, like i said, i think he delivers a song 'better' these days and chooses more interesting songs to sing..there's a bunch of "hits" Gord still performs that I could totally do without hearing live but that they are must plays obviously and good catchy tunes

oh, I agree about the true and truest fan terms, ugh

i could ramble more but i doubt many woudl make it thru my 2 cents already...i gotta say that although i bypass lots of longwinded posts and threads, that I have read this one and loved reading everyone's take from one extreme to another...100% agree with RMD, that Gord HAS thought about IT - and it's obvious that i 100% disagree that his voice is NO more and I'm sorry to hear that there won't be a new album of fresh material delivered in Gord's WFY, APPT, Harmony voice...but i suppose i can get by with rotating the small handful of existing recordings he's got out there and more live stuff and possibly more gems from the vault, pleeeease:)

interesting stuff, well, deb, the topic sure has got alot of attention deservedly or not, eh? lol;)

the latter sub-topic of key change is one I'd love to chat amongst this group in person (instead of all this typing, cos I really don't like tying at all, i'm a hunt & pecker, agh)

i've always consider the choice of key which the song is written recorded in, as part of the composition of song itself...i believe that an artist is going to cover a song then they should do it in the written key or just leave it alone - right from the intro onward, if i hear the first few notes in a different key than i grew accustomed to then it just doesn't sound 'right'- that's just my opinion and it's not a practical one - anyhow, does anyone know if Gord has changed keys of songs he's done live vs. studio versions?

i'm not sure what songs are being referred to for key change recommendation? I agree that he needn't bother doing the high notes at the end of SFAWN (like he attempted on MMM live) - last time I heard him do that live he didn't, as I recall

as Char and Ron were saying re: opting for alternative melody notes such as in Beautiful live, I really think this is the answer...as long as it's not a drastic change, I really like when he or any artist delivers new phrasings or melody notes when performing live...actually, I love that, and that's a large part of what I'm there for and to hear live arrangements...odd that I'm flexible on any melody and phrasings but stubborn about key changes, eh? lol

but some artists go totally overboard on changing their live versions of songs, eh...sometimes I just shake my head and say "what was THAT!???"

hey, if keys were to be changed, shouldn't they songs be transposed up and not down a notch in most cases? what songs are you referring to gretschviking1967? i think the ability to hit low or high notes is more about projection/diaphram limitations than his voice changing over which may or may not be related to smoking...i actually thought smoking makes the voice lower...the change is probably natural or related to other bad habits from the past...anyhow, like i said, i think he delivers a song 'better' these days and chooses more interesting songs to sing..there's a bunch of "hits" Gord still performs that I could totally do without hearing live but that they are must plays obviously and good catchy tunes

oh, I agree about the true and truest fan terms, ugh

i could ramble more but i doubt many woudl make it thru my 2 cents already...i gotta say that although i bypass lots of longwinded posts and threads, that I have read this one and loved reading everyone's take from one extreme to another...100% agree with RMD, that Gord HAS thought about IT - and it's obvious that i 100% disagree that his voice is NO more and I'm sorry to hear that there won't be a new album of fresh material delivered in Gord's WFY, APPT, Harmony voice...but i suppose i can get by with rotating the small handful of existing recordings he's got out there and more live stuff and possibly more gems from the vault, pleeeease:)

This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ? [/QUOTE]These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces. [/QUOTE]With today's technology, lowering the key a step or two would be simple. With the guitar, you drop the capo 1 or 2 frets. With modern keyboards, you can change the key just by pushing a few buttons, and still play it using the notes your used to. Barry wouldn't have to worry about a thing with the drums. Rick would have to manually play in a different key, but I think it would be quite easy for him, considering how long he's been playing bass, and the fact that he has a lot of musical know-how.

JJ,

I am referring to most of the tunes he performs. "Carferee Highway" is one where he has the choice to bring the capo down a notch. That medley of "For Lovin' Me/Did She Mention My Name" is another one that should played with open chords. He'd be bringing "DSMMN" back to it's original register. He needs to bring the keys DOWN, not UP. Take a look at the live DVD. The low notes are fine but he almost goes cross eyed a few times struggling to hit those higher notes. At one point near the end of "Canadian Railroad Trilogy", he looses it completely. Take a look.


As a musician, I have learned that playing everything in the original key is downright silly and the worst thing a person can do. I have seen people with that attitude make absolute fools of themselves. I was one of them. For years I wouldn't perform certain songs because I refused to change the key and of course, I knew the original was just way too high for me. I turned down many many requests for songs that I knew I could play but simply refused. Then one day I woke up and said to myself, "Wait a minute! Am I out of my mind? This is my bread and butter! WHY should I not do these songs in a way that I can sing them? I am NOT Gordon Lightfoot, the Beatles, Michael Nesmith and vice versa." Once I pushed that narrow mindedness out of the way, a huge doorway opened for me where I was performing off the wall tunes like "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Cotton Jenny", "What Am I Doing Hanging 'Round?" etc. From that point onward, my repertoire exploded. Besides, 99.9% of professional musicians change the key to nearly everything they get their hands on. It also keeps the creative juices flowing.

[ April 13, 2007, 17:46: Message edited by: gretschviking1967 ]

JJ,

I am referring to most of the tunes he performs. "Carferee Highway" is one where he has the choice to bring the capo down a notch. That medley of "For Lovin' Me/Did She Mention My Name" is another one that should played with open chords. He'd be bringing "DSMMN" back to it's original register. He needs to bring the keys DOWN, not UP. Take a look at the live DVD. The low notes are fine but he almost goes cross eyed a few times struggling to hit those higher notes. At one point near the end of "Canadian Railroad Trilogy", he looses it completely. Take a look.


As a musician, I have learned that playing everything in the original key is downright silly and the worst thing a person can do. I have seen people with that attitude make absolute fools of themselves. I was one of them. For years I wouldn't perform certain songs because I refused to change the key and of course, I knew the original was just way too high for me. I turned down many many requests for songs that I knew I could play but simply refused. Then one day I woke up and said to myself, "Wait a minute! Am I out of my mind? This is my bread and butter! WHY should I not do these songs in a way that I can sing them? I am NOT Gordon Lightfoot, the Beatles, Michael Nesmith and vice versa." Once I pushed that narrow mindedness out of the way, a huge doorway opened for me where I was performing off the wall tunes like "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Cotton Jenny", "What Am I Doing Hanging 'Round?" etc. From that point onward, my repertoire exploded. Besides, 99.9% of professional musicians change the key to nearly everything they get their hands on. It also keeps the creative juices flowing.

[ April 13, 2007, 17:46: Message edited by: gretschviking1967 ]